xiphias | A negative comment about a party at Arisia

Far as I'm concerned, you can EITHER have an invite-only party OR you can advertise your party.

But it's FUCKING RUDE to advertise your invite-only party.

Don't mind invite-only parties. Don't even mind invite-only parties who, apparently, were going around handing out invites only to women who were dressed slutty. Heck, if someone took that to the extreme, and walked around the con handing out slips of paper which said, "You're sexy. Come to my room at 11 pm," that wouldn't bother me. And if he or she got people to show up, more power to him or her.

DO mind people who do that and also put posters up in the stairwells advertising their party. It's fucking RUDE to do that, then set up a velvet rope outside, and do the "club" thing. Dunno about you, but I go to cons to get away from that kind of dynamic.

Yes, I'm pissed off at not being pretty enough to get into that party.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

adrian-turtle.livejournal.com

I think it's perfectly legitimate to have a specialized costume party at a con, and to restrict it to people in costume. If there was a party for people in Regency dress, I couldn't go because I don't have an appropriate outfit (and would not have brought it to the con even if I owned it), but I wouldn't have a problem with someone standing at the door telling people, "This is a Regency party, you're not dressed for it, you can't come in." That's very different from "You're not pretty enough to party with us."

From:

cheshyre

But notice that (a) the Regency dances are generally costume-recommended not costume-required, and (b) they advertise it promiently enough so everybody knows ahead of time.

I mean, yeah, if we had been ~~really desperate~~ at all interested, we could've gone home and found some fetishwear. But we live locally. Out-of-towners who didn't have the foresight to pack appropriate clothing would be completely out-of-the-loop.

Had it been a truly private party among that circle of friends, they could've done whatever the hell they wanted and informed each other before the con.
For the kind of Regency party you describe, I could see going one step further and mentioning it at the Regency dance to anyone who shows up in costume.
But you wouldn't be advertising something like that in big posters all over the con, because most people wouldn't be able to attend...

From:

gilana

But it didn't really require specific clothing. They were encouraging some guys to take off their shirts to get it. If there was a group of people looking to enter, people who were judged skanky could escort a non-skanky guest on a leash. Mostly you just had to make an effort to fit in with the general theme of the party. They work hard to create a certain atmosphere, and I don't think it's unreasonable to only let in people who are going to contribute to that. And it's not a party for a specific group of friends; they like getting in new people who would not have known about the party otherwise.

Look, I don't actually know the people involved, so I can only speak to what I experienced, but that seems to be true of everyone talking here. I just think that none of us seems to actually know their specific rules and intents, and I think it is possible that they are less exclusionary that some people are saying.

I've gotten into the party for the past two years, so I am biased on that front. But there have definitely been plenty of people in the party who were not at all what I would consider pretty, they were just willing to look skanky. And I've also been able to dress provocatively and feel safe, *not* have smelly sleazy guys drooling down my cleavage, and I think that may be in part from their door policy, which I really appreciate.

I know it's a sensitive issue in fandom -- most of us have been judged and excluded too much in our lives, so we try to make an extra effort not to make others feel like that. But honestly, I feel like sometimes that goes too far, and the 11th Commandment is not necessarily "Thou Shalt Invite Everybody".

From:

cheshyre

But honestly, I feel like sometimes that goes too far, and the 11th Commandment is not necessarily "Thou Shalt Invite Everybody".
Let's not create a strawman here. I haven't seen anybody arguing against the existence of closed parties at cons. The problem is that this one was advertising itself as if it were an open party, with the restricted nature of admissions only mentioned in fine print or at the door.

If I could make a suggestion for the concom, Arisia rules already state that parties must be registered. If a party is closed, then it should not be allowed to advertise its presence with posters and should not be listed on the party board or in Clear Ether.
At the very least, any such advertising must make clear the party's closed status and/or the requirements for admission in large print so everybody is clear on the matter.

From: (Anonymous)

Hmm, after reading all your posts, I'd like to apologize to the folks that were disappointed or upset. This is the third year we've had a Skank party, but only the first we had a volunteer willing to make posters. We were excited by how cool the posters looked, and didn't think about the conflict of advertising a private party. However, invites were *not* required at the door, only meeting the dress code.

While we do encourage the skanky attire, an effort is all that is required - some sort of costume that is not jeans and a T-shirt. We had a luke skywalker and lots of (full coverage) trek uniforms and aliens (seeing as we'd built the bridge of the enterprise) - it wasn't just about dressing slutty. We enforce the dress code to keep the spirit of the party theme so that everyone inside is fun to look at, and the leashes were intended as a way to let in a limited number of folks who had not taken the time to get costumed, so they could be "accompanied" by someone who was dressed appropriately. I am honestly sorry if anyone was made to feel that *they* were not welcome, as opposed to what they were wearing.

But you're all right about the private party / poster conflict. I didn't think of it that way. I just want to mention that it was a private party only because of the hotel beverage policy. In the Park Plaza private parties were in a separate wing, and you needed an invite to get past the actual hotel security people that guarded the end of the hall, but anyone who managed to make it without an invite and with a costume was welcome. (Speaking of the Park Plaza the 'club cordons' were a precaution because last year the hotel gave us a ton of grief about 'crowds in the hall being a fire code problem' so we used tape on the floor to keep half the hall clear & thought stanchions would work better this time.) This year while we did use our invites to troll for invitees, they were handed out to anyone we ran across dressed up in awesome costumes, not just the skanked out ladies, and folks were definitely let in without an invite if they had taken the time to dress up. Or yes, if there were inches of cleavage. :)

Anyway, if we shouldn't have put up posters I'm sorry & we won't do it again, but I just wanted to mention that we meant it in a spirit of fun, its only 'private' in the arisia definition of what is being served, we spent about 150 hours collectively on the decorations and our costumes, and we feel that entitles us to require folks to dress up to get in. I will make sure the language at the door is more clear in the future, and we will rethink/ doublecheck the whole poster thing.

From:

chanaleh.livejournal.com

I just wanted to add a PS that I am genuinely impressed by your (the host's) taking the time to respond -- respectfully instead of defensively -- to the complaints in this forum. I think that's wonderful. And it does sound like the party was great and (mostly) well thought out -- I hope it was everything you envisioned! and that the feedback helps to get even more people enjoy your efforts next year.

From: (Anonymous)

Thank you chanelah, I appreciate your comments. It's hard to see every angle of an idea ahead of time and in retrospect with all the fetish at Arisia (I heard there was an entire fetish floor at the spillover hotel) perhaps the leashes gave the wrong idea for our party theme. My husband just suggested maybe we should have some stupid hats for muggles. :)

It did turn out as well as we hoped (except for seeing how we upset folks with the posters), but we're all exhausted. :) We've gotten requests that we disseminate the theme ahead of time so maybe folks can come up with costumes specifically for our party, and that is really a wonderful compliment and we will seriously consider doing so.

I really do appreciate the feedback and will do my best to make sure that everyone who wants to come can in the future (barring space limitations of course.) This new hotel despite all the problems with its miniature size was *much* better for us - no hotel security, no family with a baby booked below us, no repeated orders to turn down the music, and we got the suite we needed this year. Once we're rested up, we'll see about planning for next year. :)

From:

xiphias.livejournal.com

Yeah. . . stupid hats would go over better than leashes.

Leashes are already a touchy subject for some of us. . . because we take them seriously. You'll find a number of people at Arisia who are really offended by using leashes as fashion statements.

And, like Erica said, I really do appriciate you dropping by to explain what was going on. I hope it is clear that my problem is the disconnect between a closed party and an advertised party -- and the lack of understanding what the party IS.

Had the people at the door turned us away by saying, "We're asking people to come to the party in costume," we would not have been offended. Having the woman at the door turn to my wife, gesture at herself, and say, "If you want to come back dressed more like this, that would be okay" -- that sent an unintended message.

NOW I understand that "more like this" meant, "in costume." What we heard was "like a slut," and that offended us.

We like dressing sexy. Sometimes. Had we known about that ahead of time, we could have chosen to do so -- thinking about what we had with us, we could probably have put something together. But being hit by it the way it was expressed hit my "I'm not your fucking trained monkey" reaction.

"Dress like this" sounds like "dance, monkey dance". "Dress in costume" is cool.

And, again -- I don't have a problem with closed parties. I've been a door guard for closed invitation-only parties at Arisia at previous years.

I've been a door guard for parties at Arisia that were invitation-only because we didn't want the police to find out. We weren't breaking any of the drug laws, but . . . um, I'm not going to go into detail about what laws we WERE breaking because

rebmommy is my mother and reads my LJ.

Mom, Lis and I haven't been to any of THOSE parties since we've been married.

From: (Anonymous)

OK now I'm starting to get defensive. :)

I'm sorry it came off like that and will see that door speak is more clear in the future. While I understand some folks would take offense at a leash as a fashion statement, I also hate the boundaries of political correctness and would have to say that last years Church of Skank was surely offensive to persons of each religion of the types of clergies we dressed up as, but we still did that. We like to be equal opportunity offensive.

I might curb the leash use so as not to send the wrong message at the door, but I would not want to take it off the list of possibilities just to avoid offending alternative lifestyle folk (whom I nevertheless support fully). Can I also not wear collars or leather, or rubber, or latex, unless I am heading to a play party? What if I belong to a certain group, but am just going out dancing? Is it offensive to wear a ring on your left hand if you are not married?

We understand special relationships and we actually let either party hold the leash if it was requested, not a problem. But everything is a symbol to someone and in our walk-on-eggshell society, sometimes I just get tired of the overthink. I can't promise we won't offend someone next year too, but only some of it will be on purpose, and none of it will be meant to hurt anyone's feelings, or to exclude a single person who has met our single criteria of spending time and effort on making a cool costume and not creeping us out.

Thanks.

pedagogy and rhetoric a specialty

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