Less spoiler-rific AVENGERS comment, about Joss Whedon's Problem

[xiphias]

Yeah. The movie doesn't pass the Bechdel Test. At all.

See, this is the disappointing thing about Joss Whedon. He so totally wants to be a feminist. But he just . . . misses. And I feel so bad for him. I'm always rooting for him to get it right, because he WANTS to get it right, and WE want him to get it right and he just doesn't.

He's got multiple female characters with agency. It would be so easy to actually put some of them in the same room at the same time and talk about things, other than men, that move the plot forward. But he doesn't. Even though he writes female characters with agency, they're usually interacting with men, reacting to men. His worlds are patriarchal, even though it's not his intention, or his desire, and he WANTS to do better.

Please, Joss. Get it right. You want to. We want you to. It just hurts that you don't. We're pulling for you, Joss! Please.

Comments

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Okay, fine. I'll explain.

All movies should pass the Bechdel Test unless there's a specific reason for them not to. For instance, if a movie is about an all-male culture -- a movie set in a monastery, among the gay male subculture of the Seventies, about a prison -- then there is a reason for the movie not to pass.

However, absent a SPECIFIC reason for them NOT to pass, they SHOULD.

If the movie doesn't pass, it's a sign of a structural failing in the movie. It's a sign that it was written wrong. You look at it, and you notice that it doesn't pass, and you rewrite.

The Bechdel test is a first-pass approximation of the question, "Do women in this story have individual agency?" If they don't, then the story had better be one ABOUT women not having individual agency, such as one in which they are absent because of an all-male culture. Otherwise, you've screwed up.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Well said, and much more calmly than I was about to.

I get so sick of the constant reinforcement and defense of the idea that it isn't necessary to see women as full human beings, that that's some kind of extra or garnish or fillip to be worked in if the author has time and/or as the plot may allow. Feh.

[ookpik.livejournal.com]

*applause* (and for Xiphias too)

[sethg]

I’ve lost track of the link, but I saw an essay explaining that from the POV of Hollywood executives, big-budget feature films SHOULD NOT pass the Bechdel test (presumably they don’t call it that); there is a widespread belief that women will see “men’s movies” but not vice versa, and therefore any suggestion that female characters are more than accessories to the men contaminates the film with revenue-inhibiting cooties.