I'm supposed to be at gaming today
Mar. 16th, 2003 01:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
xiphiasI really don't want to go.
I don't like Champions, I'm not thrilled with the setting concept, I don't particularly like my character, I don't know the GM (he's new), and I just have absolutely no interest in this campaign.
I'm feeling pressured to go.
Lis keeps asking me why I'm not comfortable just saying I'm not going, since this is supposed to be something fun, something I enjoy.
I really don't want to go. I really don't feel comfortable telling people that. The best I can manage is passively-agressively failling to show up.
I don't like Champions, I'm not thrilled with the setting concept, I don't particularly like my character, I don't know the GM (he's new), and I just have absolutely no interest in this campaign.
I'm feeling pressured to go.
Lis keeps asking me why I'm not comfortable just saying I'm not going, since this is supposed to be something fun, something I enjoy.
I really don't want to go. I really don't feel comfortable telling people that. The best I can manage is passively-agressively failling to show up.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 10:56 am (UTC)He feels that commitment won't allow him to ever drop out of the gaming group, even if the only reason to go to the gaming group is because of this commitment.
Even though (aside from himself and the hosts) the entire membership of the gaming group has turned over since he joined it, even though he's not enjoying himself, even though the commitment is implicit rather than explicitly spoken, he made a commitment and feels honorbound to continue going to this weekly gaming group until the end of time.
And I'm saying that that isn't sufficient reason anymore. He's not having fun; every week he sounds like he dreads going. They've just started a new campaign, so he's not leaving any storylines hanging. I feel he should be able to say "I'm not interested in this campaign; call me before the next campaign starts and maybe I'll play in that one"
I think we both understand the logic of other's POVs, but have trouble with the emotion behind them. Anybody care to try explaining the situation more clearly to him or to me?
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 11:21 am (UTC)Okay, hm. Do rituals still mean something once the reason for the ritual has disappeared? In the same vein, do committments still bind once the reason for the committment doesn't exist anymore?
Commitments are not set in stone, and if you're not enjoying yourself the other members of the group will pick up on it. Why do something that you're not going to enjoy and that they're not going to enjoy you not enjoying, if that makes sense.
Do you feel like you might need outside permission to say "I'm not doing this," or another reason besides the main truth of why you don't want to do it?
Help me unpack this a bit, if you can. My sympathies in any case.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 11:31 am (UTC)Absoluely. My entire religion is based largely on that notion.
In the same vein, do committments still bind once the reason for the committment doesn't exist anymore?
Yes.
And commitments are set in stone. That's why they're called "commitments". If they weren't set in stone, they wouldn't be commitments.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 11:51 am (UTC)Okay, hm. Do rituals still mean something once the reason for the ritual has disappeared?
Absoluely. My entire religion is based largely on that notion.
In the same vein, do committments still bind once the reason for the committment doesn't exist anymore?
Yes.
Okay. Since I don't wish to poke at that, because it's a religious difference in both the specific and the general sense, let me try another tack.
And commitments are set in stone. That's why they're called "commitments". If they weren't set in stone, they wouldn't be commitments.
All right... are committments subject to renegotiation?
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 12:01 pm (UTC)In some respect, this feels to me like you're putting everybody else's wants above your own, and setting your own needs last.
BTW, I love you very much, and thank you for posting about this.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 12:04 pm (UTC)What if someone you knew in a bad marriage tossed this out as the reason not to leave? Yes, it's an extreme example. But as Lis said, you have a commitment to your own well-being.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 12:11 pm (UTC)Actually, I don't think he does have such a commitment in his belief system.
That's why I've been asking him if he can make one.
[Assistance on this would be greatly appreciated :) ]
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 12:17 pm (UTC)Are you committed to go to first grade for the rest of your life?
Commitments change with time. Some are permanent in nature but voluntary in scope, notably marriage and religion. Some have defined time limits but may be mandatory in some way, like first grade.
Commitments are commitments because we commit ourselves to doing them, but we have reasons for committing ourselves in the first place. If those reasons change or go away then a re-evaluation of the commitment is in order.
Quickfire quiz - your friend is dating someone great, sweet, pleasant to be around and then suddenly your friend's sweetie turns into a druggie with bad attitude who wrecks every social gathering. What do you advise your friend to do?
1) Stay! It's a commitment through thick and thin no matter what! Don't say another word!
2) Discuss things with the sweetie! Maybe they don't know they're being a pain but it needs to be addressed! If it can't be dealt with, *then* look at what to do!
3) Leave suddenly! Your sweetie needs no explanation and probably won't notice anyways!
I'm pretty sure I know your answer, Ian. Now if you substitute "sweetie" for "gaming group" would your answer change for your friend?
And if it doesn't change for your friend, why should it be so different for you?
I've been in the same headspace, b'ror. T'ain't fun. It kept me in a couple of bad relationships months or even years longer than I should have stayed.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 06:19 pm (UTC)As long as you're dragging yiddishkeit into this, I'd direct your attention to Nedarim 22a, and the text of kol nidrei derived therefrom. [insert halachic thumb waving here] If you made a neder with a group (unlikely), and if you find for whatever reason that you cannot in good faith uphold your end of that neder, you can, nay, must, seek release from the vow by the other party/parties. If you think you made a neder but you no longer have kavanah, you're probably already violating the neder anyway, and it might be better from a halachic standpoint to make kaporos now rather than drag it out.
But then, I'm not your rov.
PS: if you feel you made a neder with an eidah, and the membership of that community has turned over and essentially reformed with new membership, you might want to inquire what your obligations are to the new community. CYL*R.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-17 08:22 am (UTC)Now, to Ian, what I was thinking about yesterday afternoon:
If you ask a rabbi whether it is better to pray with kavanah or without, they will of course say to pray with. If you ask a rabbi whether it is better to pray without kavanah or not pray at all, they'll sigh and say "Pray anyway and *strive* for kavanah." I think this was what you were aiming at when you said "My entire religion is based largely on that notion [that rituals still mean something even when the reason has disappeared]."
But you see, that's the purpose of kavanah; to give meaning to something that seems meaningless. That's why you and all the other *good* Hebrew school teachers out there teach the reasons, not just the rituals. That's why the Passover Seder includes questions and answers; to bring meaning.
Now then, back to this gaming thing. If you can't even give enough kavanah to go there and try, then you're really not doing them any favors. Papersky and Vonbeck have already pointed out that being honest about your feelings observes the spirit of the commitment more than breaking the short-term promise to go to the session.
*hugs* Hope this helps.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 11:18 am (UTC)I have been in games where I felt like that, and I was always so glad to stop when I eventually managed it... how many people have they got?
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 11:28 am (UTC)I run Game Night because it's fun. As soon as it is no longer regularly fun I will stop hosting it. Games *are* for fun, that's a big part of playing them.
I would love to be in a regular gaming group for an RPG because I am quite sure I'd have fun playing. That said, last time I went to a run with a new group was a couple of years ago. They ran later than I could handle and there was a bit too much smoke in the air. Also I wasn't having fun at the time - so I emailed the GM and let him know that the group wasn't a match for me and the reasons why.
IMO I'd suggest telling them that you'll be giving the current campaign a miss. You aren't having fun with it, you don't know the GM, you don't like the setting, you don't like your character... going just because the people playing with you expect you to is not healthy for you. What's more, it may have an impact on how much you want to game overall and may also bring into question how much you *really* like going to gaming things. I would not want you coming to Games Night just for obligation - I want you coming because you're having fun and enjoying yourself and enjoying playing. And the weeks you've felt too blah to come you've stayed home. Yeah, I've missed you - I like playing with you. But I respect your space and need for it. I suspect the other players in your gaming group would do the same.
Asking for a hiatus isn't disrespecting the group. It's respecting the fundamental value of the group - that you come for fun.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 05:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-16 05:59 pm (UTC)Sounds like a bad case of "Okay okay, I'll be the #&@!ing thief already-itis" has set in. You say you made a commitment, but either the circumstances of the gaming have changed significantly or the commitment made was an ill-considered one. Either way, if you're just making yourself miserable, it's not likely to be good for anyone there.
Put another way, I put a lot of time and effort into a game for about five years, including R&D on a campaign setting I was in the process of pitching to one of the major RPG companies. But at some point in the testplay, I lost control of it and it morphed into something hatefully stupid and emotionally damaging (and not because of the suits). I walked away from a half dozen friends and about $8k in stranded costs to get out of the situation because it was rotting my soul. You're a much more civilised and sociable sort than I. You can do it without the lost friends and the lost $$$ if you want.
Comment from another menber of the gaming group
Date: 2003-03-17 07:13 am (UTC)I will miss having you at game (not only are you a good friend,
but IMO one of eth better gamers in the group.)
I am a bit miffed at your saying you will be playing, then not
showing up. We have just lost another player (for at least this
run0 and are getting kind of short on players. The group needs
to decide if bringing in another player or two should be done.
I think it would show more of a comitment to the group to inform
them that you did not want to attend the current run, instead of
simply not showing up.
I'm sitting out too at present....
Date: 2003-03-17 01:09 pm (UTC)Not being thrilled with the system or the setting should be valid reasons to aske to be excused from the current game. So too is having too many things on your plate taking up your time and effort, or just not feeling up to a game because of extreme stress or ill health.
(The group has not had a complete turn over since it started as someone stated by the way.... just about 50%... which is not bad for a group thats been running for 5+ years. It has picked up others along the way, some of whom didn't last and others who left after a year or two due to other life commitments, moves out of state or country, etc.).
Tell folks you need a break Ian, and take it. They will understand this far better than randomly showing up every few weeks when you can't find an excuse not to show and just being depressed and withdrawn when you do come.
Joe
A Message From the Host
Date: 2003-03-17 06:53 pm (UTC)