Why we should call it "Daesh" instead of "ISIS."

[xiphias]

There are a bunch of things you could call the terrorist organization that kills so many innocent people and claims it's in the name of a God of peace. Most of them are unprintable. But right now, I mostly see it being called "ISIS", which is an acronym for "Islamic State of Iraq and Syria." But there are people who are starting to call it "Daesh" -- something like "Dah[glottal stop/ayin-sort-of-sound]--eesh". Which is an acronym for al-Dawla al-Islamiya fi al-'Eraq- wa al-Sham.

So, what's better about "Daesh" than "ISIS"? Aren't they the same thing? Well... on the surface, yes. But really, not so much.

See, the thing is -- in English, we do acronyms and initialisms a lot. It seems like you're not even allowed to start a government program or something until you've come up with a cool acronym for it. But in Arabic, not so much. "al-Dawla al-Islamiya fi al-'Eraq- wa al-Sham" sounds all impressive. "Daesh" sounds much less so. Sounds like of stupid, actually.

Plus, it sounds a lot like "daes", which means something like "squisher." It's not actually a form of the same word or anything, but it sounds a lot alike.

In English, "ISIS" sounds like "Isis", a goddess of the underworld. Not a good religious connotation, sure, but still pretty darned awesome. In Arabic "Daesh" sounds like you're trying to make wine. Much less awesome.

So: the tl;dr of why to use "Daesh" instead of "ISIS" is that "ISIS" sounds cool, and "Daesh" sounds pathetic -- and that, when your entire existence depends upon getting impressionable teenagers and young men to believe that you are cool enough to die for, making you sound pathetic genuinely hurts you.

Comments

[davesmusictank.livejournal.com]

Interesting and it does sound strange but appropriate.

[jjhunter]

See Zeba Khan's editorial Words matter in ‘ISIS’ war, so use ‘Daesh’ - there's an extra level on the sounds-like front that makes Daesh even more apt.

The term “Daesh” is strategically a better choice because it is still accurate in that it spells out the acronym of the group’s full Arabic name, al-Dawla al-Islamiya fi al-Iraq wa al-Sham. Yet, at the same time, “Daesh” can also be understood as a play on words — and an insult. Depending on how it is conjugated in Arabic, it can mean anything from “to trample down and crush” to “a bigot who imposes his view on others.”

[navrins]

I might've read the same article. I got the sense that calling ISIS "Daesh" is a little like calling Germans "Jerries," or Japanese "Japs." And to be honest, I have mixed feelings about that.

I'm all in favor of not giving that group the respect of calling it a state. It might become one someday, but it isn't one now. On the other hand, dehumanizing them isn't the answer either, especially if we aren't actually willing to fight a war against them (which we don't appear to be).

Then again, US policy toward them currently - or as of Friday, anyway - seems to be as broken as anything I've ever seen. We won't acknowledge them, but we won't really fight them, we'll just drop bombs all over them in hopes of, I dunno, killing more of them than innocent people? We won't stop them making millions of refugees, but we'll think about maybe taking in some of them - probably fewer than our own bombing creates.

So, basically, arguing over what to call them makes rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic seem critically important. Let's decide what, if anything, we actually want to accomplish in the region. If we want them gone, we're going to need an invasion. If we're not going to invade, we need to figure out how to engage in diplomacy with them, because they *will* become a state and we *will* have to interact with them in some fashion.

[captainsblog.livejournal.com]

There's a difference between using this term for these madmen and referring to an entire ethnicity by it (as one critic of term compared it to referring to Germans as "Huns").

The intent here is not to demonize an entire people. Quite the opposite. It's to marginalize the minority who claim an otherwise noble name and put it to bad use (such as the "Baptist" in "Westboro Baptist").

I would love to see the media adopt this. Daesh the Daeshing Daeshers.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

I might have had the impression you did, but the people I first saw advocate for calling this murderous group 'Daesh' instead of 'ISIS' are Muslims -- among other examples, I am thinking specifically of an informative interview witht eh Queen of Jordan where she lays out the exact reasoning. If I can find the link I'll come back and post it.

So I think it makes sense to support Muslims in deriding and disavowing this group through renaming.

[ron_newman]

Daesh isn't an ethnic group. So, not comparable.

[navrins]

Americans used the terms Jerries and Japs to refer to the enemy. Not that Americans were very good at distinguishing between the enemy, and the ethnic group the enemy is part of - but that hasn't changed either.

Now if you want to argue it's not comparable because we're not at war with Daesh, or because Daesh isn't a country, you've got a valid (if weak) case.

[ron_newman]

And those terms were offensive because they did refer to ethnic groups or nationalities. Imagine what it must have been like to be a Japanese-American during that time, even if you weren't being interned in a camp.

If there are Daesh supporters in the US, they should be investigated, and charged or deported if there is sufficient evidence.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I really don't see any similarity between calling the organization "Daesh" and calling Germans "Krauts/Jerries/Huns" or whatever. Really not seeing the similarity at all.

The thing I can most compare it to is, have you been watching the show I, ROBOT? The main character refers to the huge corporation he's trying to take down as "Evil Corp".

That's the closest thing I can compare it to.

[asqmh.livejournal.com]

Can we just call them squishier? Because "Squishier" would have a hard time recruiting anyone....

[karinmollberg.livejournal.com]

Right. Every Muslim I know here in France, does.

[harvey-rrit.livejournal.com]

I kinda like Allah's National Unified State, myself.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

The only problem is that they're not national, they're not unified, they're not a state, and 99.996% of the people who count themselves as Allah's think that they're not.

So, other than not being Allah's, National, Unified, or a State, I see your point.

[ron_newman]

sort of like the Holy Roman Empire? Though what they want to create is more like the Papal States.

[harvey-rrit.livejournal.com]

i just liked the acronym mutter mutter

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Sharia-Harming Insane Terrorists?

[harvey-rrit.livejournal.com]

I could see Sharia-Harping....

[richardf8]

I just saw something interesting. A post on a facebook site noted that 'GIS' had captured the terrorist responsible for an attack in Israel. The first comment was "What's GIS?" I was wondering too. Then came the answer - Shabak שב"כ. GIS is an acronym for the English translation of the expansion of the Hebrew acronym by which everyone in the world knows the organization.

The fact is, that in my eyes, ISIS and דאעש share the same problem: they are both obsolete. It is clear that the organization's ambitions transcend the the borders of Iraq and Syria. Frankly, I am content to regard this lot as contemporary Almohades, striving for a global caliphate. A perhaps better name for them would simply be "The Enemy."

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

First, they're not THE enemy -- they're merely AN enemy. Don't elevate them to that status.

And who cares about inaccuracy in naming? Nobody's names are accurate. The Nazis weren't socialists. The Liberal party of Canada is centrist.

[kiya]

Heh. Isis is a goddess of many things - the Roman-form particularly, the Egyptian Aset not so many - but the underworld is pretty much entirely not one of 'em. ;)

Aside from that: yeah.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

... I was thinking of Ishtar. Oops.