xiphias: (Default)
[personal profile] xiphias
The proof is simple.

Let's say that English runs into a language that has a word for a concept that English doesn't have. And English thinks that WOULD be a good concept to have a word for.

BAM!

Now it's an English word.

"Crap! We don't have a word for 'that evil pleasure that you feel when something bad happens to someone you don't like!'. And German does! Well, that's easily solved. . . " And then, "schadenfreude" is an English word. Heck, my spellchecker even recognizes it.

And that's why English has, and will always have, the best vocabulary on the planet. And on any other planet with verbal languages that can be pronounced by humans. Because, if English ever runs into better vocabulary, it just takes it.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hobbitbabe.livejournal.com
I know this is conventional wisdom, as in the James Nicoll saying
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.


But I have to wonder if English is all that unusual in this regard.

The only other languages I know any of are French, Irish, and Japanese, and I definitely learned loanwords in all of them. Are there loanwords in modern Hebrew?

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 02:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bercilakslady.livejournal.com
There are loan words in Modern Hebrew.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 02:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hobbitbabe.livejournal.com
Amusingly, after I wrote that, I was sitting here trying to remember if "loanword" was an English word.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 02:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gnomi.livejournal.com
There are a ton of loan words in modern Hebrew. Among the ones that surprised me was "date" (spelled, I believe, dalet-yud-yud-tet), as in "to go on a date." Anachnu holchim b'date. Yesh li date. (Ani) avi date.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sashajwolf.livejournal.com
I think it's not so much that it has loanwords that's unusual - it's the sheer enthusiasm and promiscuity with which it adopts them. In a language that was revived from almost exclusively liturgical use, like Modern Hebrew, it's not too surprising, but in a language with a continuous history as long as English has, it's more unusual. Most of its European siblings have Academies dedicated to preserving their purity, including fiercely resisting the intrusion of loanwords, sometimes with official and legislative backing; French is a particularly notorious example. English never really felt the need, AFAICT.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com
One commentator responded to the attempt at starting an Academy for English with something along the lines of, great idea, and, while you're at it, why not start foundations to make the Great Elixir and a perpetual motion machine.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hobbitbabe.livejournal.com
Language-standardization or language-purity-preservation efforts might be more effective for languages where it's pretty clear that the majority of native speakers and language-learners live in one country. Irish and Dutch have both had big official spelling reforms within the last century, for example. With French, I know that there's an Academy in France, but also there's "L'Office québécois de la langue française" which doesn't always reach the same decisions. (It kind of cracks me up that the title of the group is "L'office" and not "le bureau".)

But I can't really see English-speakers in the former colonies or other parts of the world paying much attention to any recommendations by a language-reform or language-preservation group from the UK -- and there are a lot of us.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 04:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com
Sure, there are loanwords in Modern Hebrew, but not to the same extent. In fact, Israel has an academy to act as a gatekeeper to keep foreign words out. Naturally, most Israelis are unaware of this, and the few who are ignore it, but, even so, Hebrew is nowhere near as promiscuous as English.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com
I think the distinction is this: all widely-spoken languages have loanwords, but they typically come from bilingual populations. Most loanwords in Hebrew are from English, some from Russian, some from Arabic,because those are the most widely spoken non-Hebrew languages in Israel. If you have a large population speaking a second language, the vocabulary will cross-polinate. The thing about English, though, is that, not only have we had vast numbers of immigrant populations, but we are also willing to grab words even when we don't have a lot of bilingual speakers.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-12 08:25 pm (UTC)
ext_37422: three leds (Default)
From: [identity profile] dianavilliers.livejournal.com
Whereas in German if you need a new word, you just write a sentence describing your concept and then take all the spaces out. I still like Übernachtungsmöglichkeit.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-13 03:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rebmommy.livejournal.com
what does Übernachtungsmöglichkeit mean?

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-13 03:29 am (UTC)
ext_37422: three leds (Default)
From: [identity profile] dianavilliers.livejournal.com
Literally, "over night possibility" which sounds as if it might be a one night stand, but actually means crash-space, as in a couch or somewhere to sleep. It was the longest word on a friend's wedding invite/information sheet thing, taking up a line all by itself.
Edited Date: 2012-01-13 03:31 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-13 03:43 am (UTC)
ext_12246: (Dr.Whomster)
From: [identity profile] thnidu.livejournal.com
More like "possibility of overnighting", "... of doing an overnight". You have to take the gerundizing "-ung" into account.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-13 04:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rebmommy.livejournal.com
thanks - I got the "ubernacht" part but didn't know the rest

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-13 04:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com
You did better than I did, Mom.

(no subject)

Date: 2012-01-13 02:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dancing-kiralee.livejournal.com
Do you know of any language that has a word specifically for 'things that restrict a free market'? We use both'regulations' and possibly 'controls' which usage can create a lot of political and economic disruption (and even misery) because both words have additional meaning and usage that can create confusion.

So a word that meant *only* 'things that restrict a free market' would be useful.

Kiralee

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