I realized the other day that I needed to punch myself in the face.

[xiphias]

So, yeah.

The other day, I was thinking. I realized that I was seeing some hipsters doing their facial hair as muttonchops. Apparently, muttonchops are starting to become, y'know, a thing. And I'm actually kind of uncomfortable doing a sort of "popular", "in" thing. But I thought to myself, "It's okay. I was wearing muttonchops before it was a hipster cool thing."

Then I punched myself in the face.

Comments

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

My sympathies. When I realized that I had unwittingly joined a fashion in deciding to wear my hair natural, at least the other people I saw sharing the fashion with me are people I want to identify with, so I was quite pleased.

[metahacker.livejournal.com]

Oy!

I stand by "I was uncool before being uncool was cool."

[chanaleh.livejournal.com]

*ROFL*!

[felis-sidus.livejournal.com]

In what way is not doing a thing because it's become popular materially different from doing a thing because it's become popular?

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

No, no, that's not it.

It's that "I'm so cool that I did a cool thing before it was cool" is an incredibly annoying hipster thing to say. . . and that's what I said to myself.

[felis-sidus.livejournal.com]

Oh! Now I get it. Thanks.

[dancing-kiralee.livejournal.com]

I kind of had that reaction when people decided 'geeks' were 'hot,' but only a little bit.

When you are so uncool that you've been imprisoned, raped (more or less), and had your livelihood threatened because of it, you tend to have a different perspective on the whole thing.

Mostly it irritates the hell out of me... so, you want to praise me for doing something that you think is cool before you decided it was cool; but a few months ago, when it wasn't cool, you ostracized me for it; now your insistence that it, and I, were always cool, denies the pain I went through for being ostracized. It silences me. It makes me invisible.

You privileged bastard.

...not you xiphias of course, but the people who think that way... which unfortunately is just about everyone, because it's a part of how human cognition works.

This is why I complain so much when people say I'm privileged because I'm white. I *need* a way to talk about this, a language that can be used to describe privilege without labeling the source, and without offending those people who are denied privilege for specific reasons; or, if not that ideal, a language the can be used to label my specific lack of privilege.

Kiralee

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

This is why I complain so much when people say I'm privileged because I'm white.

Well, you likely are. You are *also* disprivileged for other reasons. Both exist; one doesn't cancel out the other.

May I tell you a little story about myself? The first time in my life I noticed privilege I was simultaneously on both sides of it at once. I was seven and had moved schools, and my new friends were all Jewish because the WASP kids wouldn't talk to me or to them. The Jewish kids took me in. And I noticed how they got teased for their religion, how they had to take time off for their holidays when the school was closed for many Christian holidays, how people didn't understand their dietary restrictions. Although I didn't phrase it this way at the time I realized, as a Christian, that Christianity conferred privilege. Which didn't at all erase how being Black had conferred disprivilege in a school and a city where most of the kids felt free to ignore or insult me.

In my experience the way to talk about this, well, is to talk about it, clearly and directly, and acknowledging the situation's complexity.

[dancing-kiralee.livejournal.com]

I guess I still haven't found the language I'm looking for.

If I'd said "This is why I complain so much when people say I'm white-priveleged because I'm white" you'd be right; but that wasn't what I said, and it wasn't the meaning I was trying to convey.

I'm well aware that, even at it's worst, I had options and resource I just wouldn't have had if I wasn't white; that might be good for me (it may even have saved my life), but it's grossly unfair to anyone being denied those options and resources for such a stupid reason.

The thing is (most) people who aren't white also have options and resource that I don't - since I'm being denied privilege on other grounds.

I think the options and resources I've lost, for being whatever it is that I am, are greater than the options I've retained because I'm white.

I also tend to think of the white / non-white dynamic as a sort of bell-weather for privilege: If one loses fewer options and resouces* for being 'a thing' than one retains (or would retain) for being white than one retains privilege(tm)**; if one loses more options and resources for being 'a thing' than one retains (or would retain) for being white then one loses privilege(tm).

There are people who would argue that the line should be drawn in different places, increasing the people who would lose privilege***, but the general idea remains.

...and yes, it annoys me when people claim I'm privileged(tm) because I'm white.

Kiralee

*I'm not being statistically precise here, but the measure is meant as a kind of weighted average, where some options and resources are understood to be more important / valuable than others

**I use (tm) after a word to denote private language, when the meaning I wish to convey is similar, but not precisely the same, as the meaning typically associated with a word, and when the differences in precise meaning matter.

***At least I sincerely hope no one would want to decrease the people who are losing privilege beyond that point.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Perhaps there's a difference between "You are privileged", and "You have a (specific) privilege"? You have white privilege. You do not have straight privilege, Christian privilege, monogamous privilege, male privilege, or any of number of other privileges.

They don't have to be mutually exclusive concepts, nor do they have to be greater-than or less-than.

[dancing-kiralee.livejournal.com]

You're right...

First: yes, part of the distinction I'm trying to make is between the general and the specific.

Second: that's a much smoother and more elegant, not to mention more gramatical, way to articulate it... thanks.

Third: I'm not exactly happy with the greater-than or less-than construction myself, but it's the best way I have, currently, of describing the relationship between general and specific privilege... one that would honor your experiences (as described here) as well as my own.

A better way to put it might be that some specific privileges are significant, while others aren't. For example, racial privilege is significant... being white doesn't make me privileged (in the general sense), but if I'm not white, I definitely wouldn't be*; and even if I'm not privileged (in the general sense), having white privilege matters.

The same thing could be said for male privilege, but not, in my experience, for Christian privilege. Christian privilege definitely exists, and I've definitely noticed it's absence, but it's lack hasn't made a significant impact on my life...

This seems to be true for many, even most, of the other people I know... there have been specific cases of discrimination, but that's a specific case of discrimination, not privilege... and there are circumstances where the lack of this privilege has made people, including me, noticably less comfortable... but none that I know of where it materially affects physical well being, freedom of movement, exposure to risk, or economic well-being.

So I think, provisionally, that in the present US culture Christian privilege isn't significant, although I know that cultures change, that it's been signficant in the past and could become significant again... and I also know that someone in the present culture might disagree, and they might change my mind.

And I'm still not entirely clear that this is a good way to describe the relationship between general and specific privilege, although I think it's a little better.

Kiralee

*or maybe not; I have a hard time saying Barrack Obama isn't privileged(tm) although he doesn't have white privilege... but I think there are only a few exceptions, and ettiquette should require that those who aren't white, and claim they aren't privileged as a result, be believed.

[burgundy.livejournal.com]

Q: How did the hipster burn his mouth?

A: He ate his pizza before it was cool.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I was into exothermic reactions before they were cool.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

A true nonconformist wears their facial hair as they wish, regardless of changing trends.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what hipsters say, yes.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

I was saying that before it was cool.