The nice thing about lesbian separatist radical feminism is that it requires nothing from me.

[xiphias]

So, a bunch of people on my friends list have been linking to a post that someone wrote last year about the misogyny in Firefly/Serenity. And, y'know, there's actually a lot of interesting stuff you can do with that, but this post was written from a radical feminist point of view, by a lesbian separatist.

And I was just thinking about how EASY radfem is for me to deal with.

See, I'm a man. And so, by lesbian separatist radical feminist logic, I can never understand a woman's point of view. And THAT means that I have no obligation to try.

Now, the way I was raised, I can look at how society is set up, I can see in what ways the deck is stacked to give men more power for being men, I can see how society promotes some sorts of interactions, and values some types of personality traits more than others. In the forms of feminism in which I was raised, I can look at those things, and see if I can find ways to work around them, to change how I think about them, to work to change society to be more equatable, to allow people to be who they are, to respect the contributions of all sorts of people, to value cooperative and consensus-building interactions . . .

But, from a radical feminist point of view, the differences are not cultural, they're inherent, and, as a man, no matter what I do, I won't change.

And that's so cool. That lets me entirely off the hook. By the feminism with which I was raised, I have a responsibility to work toward a more fair and more just world. But by lesbian separatist radical feminism, I can do whatever I want, because, as I have no ability to be different than I am, I have no responsibility to try.

Comments

[ckd]

It's like free will vs. determinism, but in a completely secular construct.

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

I've found the further towards the extremes you get, right or left, the less and less ultimate difference there really would be in the outcome if they had their way.

[zarq.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that it's just all so boring.

But then. extreme selective perception bias often is. :P

[ailbhe]

Hell, I'm worse, I had *babies* and *no job*.

[ex-serenejo.livejournal.com]

The ways in which this post is complete bullshit are overwhelming my ability to type them all out. I will try later.

[ron_newman]

Please do.

[vito-excalibur.livejournal.com]

Could you? Isn't there a feminist bingo card spot for "well you better gimme my credit for being a Feminist Guy cause if you don't it's always within my power to be a Total Asshole"?

Here thanks to the omniscient Ron Newman

[thetathx1138.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I read that woman's post and, you know, nearly fell over laughing. Even better than her raging sexism is her statements about interracial couples and how they don't work. I don't think she realizes just how in sympathy she is with the guys in the funny hoods on a few points.

[copperpoint.livejournal.com]

Any chance of a link to the post that inspired this?

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Hier, bitte

oh.my.god

[punketta.livejournal.com]

that article! WTF!?

[(Anonymous)]

That sounds most peculiar to me.

I haven't read the post in question, but one thing that seems odd to me is that you would assume that it represents all lesbian separatist radical feminist thought.

I used to be a lesbian. I've done a lot of women-only stuff in the last thirty years that some would label separatist. I certainly know a lot of people who would call themselves separatist, and a lot (including me for a long time) who would describe themselves as radical feminists. I edited a radical feminist journal for ten years.

And the attitude you're describing isn't at all familiar to me. It sounds like some kind of caricature, to be honest. I don't think I know a single radical feminist who thinks "the differences are not cultural, they're inherent". Maybe they are some, I don't know. But if there are they certainly don't have a monopoly on "the" lesbian separatist radical feminism point of view.

[wandra.livejournal.com]

Oops, that wasn't supposed to be anonymous, it was from me. Have logged in now!

[mightydoll.livejournal.com]

a comment that won't make it through the blog-owners' screen, I'm sure.

I've never seen the show, however I do feel the need to point out that just because a writer writes assholes, does not mean they ARE assholes. A writer is not the characters he creates and suggesting that a man rapes and objectifies his wife (further, "guarantee" ing it) in print is libel.

As a writer, I often write in a way that is reflective of what I see around me and of my experiences with other people. In creating realistic characters, often I have to produce unlikable fucktards, this does not mean I condone the actions of my own characters.

It's a poor writer indeed who can only write facets of themselves. Some folks call that clinical narcissism

[sethg]

Another angle to approach the issue would be to observe that anyone writing a teevee show for a major advertiser-supported network is in a very bad position, radical-politics-wise, since the networks are primarily run by rich old white guys who covet the 18-to-34-year-old-male demographic. So in that environment, even shows that purport to champion female empowerment have to show off those empowered females in a way that appeals to men.

[jehanna.livejournal.com]

I haven't read this fabled post. I can't do any flavor of "separatist" feminism, though, not only because I have so many male friends, but because it rules out a place for anybody on the genderqueer spectrum at the table. No can do. Cannot separate one part of my self from another.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Cliquez ici

[greenlily.livejournal.com]

I read that already, courtesy of someone else's LJ, and the only thing I could think was, "This is why I don't call myself a feminist. Because someone, somewhere, will think that that means I think the same things as this person."

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

You SHOULD call yourself a feminist, though. If you don't, then you leave that person to define it.

Like why I define myself as an American patriot. And a feminist.

[redbird]

As I understand it--and it's not my kind of feminism--lesbian separatism is more saying "in this society, no interactions between women and men can avoid being sexist and oppressive to the women. Therefore, we will not voluntarily interact with men. To the extent possible, we will work with other women, and socialize with other women, and build at least a small space where we can be away from that set of problems."

It's not about you. That much is true. But it does not say either that you inherently can't understand the problem because you're male, or that the problem is inherent in either chromosomes or physiology. Rather, a lesbian separatist might say that your part of the revolution should include educating other men and working to fight sexism. You don't need to interact with a specific lesbian separatist to work for equal pay, for example.

[ailbhe]

Thanks for that explanation. It sounds very restful, actually. And not what I had previously understood about lesbian separatism, since my only personal encounter with it was being attacked for being bi.

[ashnistrike.livejournal.com]

What's remarkable about that post is how misogynistic it is. We won't even go into racist and heterophobic. Now I feel the need to run around telling everyone I know that I'm a feminist, just to make sure no one thinks this is representative.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd actually been trying to convince people of the latent racism in Firefly ever since I first saw it. But yes, it's nice to be let off the hook.

[copperpoint.livejournal.com]

That was me.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

I can never understand a woman's point of view. And THAT means that I have no obligation to try.

This is, in a nutshell, why I hate "it's an X thing, you wouldn't understand" statements. But that's another show.

[ron_newman]

Hey Ian, you just made UniversalHub with this post.

[ruth-lawrence.livejournal.com]

I have no support *whatsoever* for 'radical feminism' as I see it as 'reactionary sexism of an alternative kind'...and do not support lesbian separatists, either.

I used to hang out where there were plenty of both.

Ughhh.

[sethg]

As far as I can tell from the post in question, the author is not a separatist. If she is, then why is she bothering to watch a TV show that was produced by a man, stars male actors, and was broadcast by a male-directed corporate network? In the "just about all het sex is rape" thread that has been linked to elsewhere, she cites Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon, who are not separatists.

Years and years ago, I read an article about separatist communes in the Pacific Northwest. The author quoted one of the residents as saying something along the lines of "my straight sister in Los Angeles spends more time complaining about men than I do".

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

I think you may be reading a few things into that post that weren't there. But what is there is plenty to be going on with. My favourite part is where she says she doesn't support women's choices, because the logical consequence of that does seem to be some form of totalitarianism as a feminist version of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. And that worked out really well, as we all know.

[florafloraflora.livejournal.com]

That's exactly why I'm not a gender separatist: I refuse to let men off the hook. I think of myself as a person first, not as a woman, and some of my favorite people are men. There are individuals and entire online communities that make me feel like a chump sometimes for thinking that, but I love life and I'm not going to change. The best thing for men and women is for men and women to live, work, and play together as much as possible.

I think of myself as a feminist and I've tried to spend time in feminist groups, but they don't really like me or my religion there.

That post about Firefly was really clumsy. Joss Whedon, though? Not a feminist. Sorry.

lesbian separatist radical feminism

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

one nutcase does not a movement make.

Re: lesbian separatist radical feminism

[griffen.livejournal.com]

No, but that nutcase sure does make it hard to take the movement seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

Having read the post to which you linked which you say inspired this rant of your, I completely fail to see the connection.

1. The post itself never starts off saying the author is a "lesbian radical feminist separatist". Perhaps she is. I don't know her.

2. The author is not (I don't think) some pioneer of the lesbian feminist separatist movement, some great movement leader, or some influential policy maker. One suspects she is a little known blogger venting her frustration on her personal blog. Your willingness to dismiss feminism with glee based on one blogger's personal opinion of a television series with which you apparently disagree makes me wonder if you've ever seriously had a feminist sensibility in the first place.

3. I thought there were some good points brought up in her post. I don't think it is "crazy" or "off the wall" at all. It simply shows a different perspective on the series, one which clearly offends you in some deep and primal way. Opinions which do not match the mainstream are not necessarily "crazy" or those of a "nutjob" or even, possibly, wrong.

4. I fail to see why you have taken this so personally. Are you Joss Whedon or one of his writers? She was writing about him and the show he produced, not you.

5. If your post indicates this is what you think radical feminism is about, I strongly suggest you go educate yourself on what it is really about, because your idea of what it is about is pretty much completely wrong. But I can tell by your tone it is highly unlikely you will do so, since you have decided you already know what it is about. Just like all the people I know who "know" what Andrea Dworkin believed and wrote about without having ever once read one of her books, or listened to anything she said with any intention of doing anything but trying to point out all the ways in which she was wrong.