Things I learned on the trip:
Jul. 5th, 2007 07:54 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
xiphias2. How [at least the subset of] People [that I talked to] view Americans
I have friends and family who wear Canadian flags on their backpacks when they go through Europe, and I understand why. I think Europeans have plenty of reasons to be annoyed with Americans. But, Lis and I are Americans, and didn't try to hide it.
We do have the advantage of being from Massachusetts, so we're the ones who hate Bush as much as they do. . .
The folks we talked to don't blame us for Bush any more -- or less -- than they blame Italians for Berlusconi. It sucks, but every once in a while, a democracy manages to saddle itself with a dangerous moron. Okay, the United States is bigger, so the amount of damage Bush can do is more widespread than the damage Berlusconi tried to do, but the principle is the same. So long as we're trying to do something about limiting the damage our dangerous moron is doing -- and they do appear to perceive that we are at least trying to -- they don't hold it against us, personally. Lis and I are on the same side. Sure, as American liberals from perhaps the most liberal state in the United States, it does mean that we're more conservative than most of the people we were talking to, but still, we're not so far to the right that we're insane.
And, for what it's worth: there are Italians of a certain age who still consider Americans to be "the guys who helped us kick out the Nazis after we got rid of Mussolini". Sure, they're perfectly aware that, since that time, we have not always lived up to those ideals -- but they don't forget what it is that we are supposed to be, and they still love us for it. We, of course, have to do a better job of living up to that, but they wouldn't let us forget what it is that we are supposed to live up to. It's useful to have someone who actually holds you to standards.
Almost all the "anti-American" graffiti was actually anti-Bush and anti-war -- and there was less of that than there is in Boston. As is only right, of course -- it's more OUR responsibility to fix than theirs, so we should be more vocal about it. The ideological wars which were being fought in white spraypaint on the walls of Rome were largely anti-fascist rhetoric on one side, and anti-communist rhetoric on the other, and, in Trieste, were largely anti-immigration (sad, but not uncommon in border cities).
We did see one genuinely anti-American graffito, but it didn't bother us. We're Bostonians. We like graffiti that says, "Yankees Suck!"
I have friends and family who wear Canadian flags on their backpacks when they go through Europe, and I understand why. I think Europeans have plenty of reasons to be annoyed with Americans. But, Lis and I are Americans, and didn't try to hide it.
We do have the advantage of being from Massachusetts, so we're the ones who hate Bush as much as they do. . .
The folks we talked to don't blame us for Bush any more -- or less -- than they blame Italians for Berlusconi. It sucks, but every once in a while, a democracy manages to saddle itself with a dangerous moron. Okay, the United States is bigger, so the amount of damage Bush can do is more widespread than the damage Berlusconi tried to do, but the principle is the same. So long as we're trying to do something about limiting the damage our dangerous moron is doing -- and they do appear to perceive that we are at least trying to -- they don't hold it against us, personally. Lis and I are on the same side. Sure, as American liberals from perhaps the most liberal state in the United States, it does mean that we're more conservative than most of the people we were talking to, but still, we're not so far to the right that we're insane.
And, for what it's worth: there are Italians of a certain age who still consider Americans to be "the guys who helped us kick out the Nazis after we got rid of Mussolini". Sure, they're perfectly aware that, since that time, we have not always lived up to those ideals -- but they don't forget what it is that we are supposed to be, and they still love us for it. We, of course, have to do a better job of living up to that, but they wouldn't let us forget what it is that we are supposed to live up to. It's useful to have someone who actually holds you to standards.
Almost all the "anti-American" graffiti was actually anti-Bush and anti-war -- and there was less of that than there is in Boston. As is only right, of course -- it's more OUR responsibility to fix than theirs, so we should be more vocal about it. The ideological wars which were being fought in white spraypaint on the walls of Rome were largely anti-fascist rhetoric on one side, and anti-communist rhetoric on the other, and, in Trieste, were largely anti-immigration (sad, but not uncommon in border cities).
We did see one genuinely anti-American graffito, but it didn't bother us. We're Bostonians. We like graffiti that says, "Yankees Suck!"
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-05 12:01 pm (UTC)Thank you!
It has annoyed me with the fury of a dozen damp matches how I see U.S.Atians talk about left-wing this and socialist that in their domestic politics, when all I can see across the pond about most of the Democrats looks rather more like what I know as moderate conservatives, or at the very most radicals, perhaps radical moderates.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-05 01:32 pm (UTC)They also may remember how Il Duce came into power in the first place. He wasn't just a dangerous moron, but he was initially a mind-bogglingly popular moron, sort of like Bush. (I'm always leery of facile parallels, but some of the early rhetoric about national security is resonant)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-05 03:23 pm (UTC)Seriously, of course there are parallels. Mussolini was the guy who wrote the book on how to turn a modern democracy into a fascist dictatorship. Sure, Machiavelli wrote down the basics, but Mussolini was the guy who polished it up. Any other attempt in this time period is going to look a lot like Mussolini's.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-05 01:35 pm (UTC)Part of me wanted to say 'wow it's still there' However I did not travel to Italy and did not want to claim credit for something I did not do.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-07-05 02:08 pm (UTC)