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xiphiasMost folks on my friends list post about their relationships. I can think of three women in particular who post about their husbands (and, if you're not sure if I'm talking about you, feel free to email me and ask), who tend to get comments talking about what bums their husbands are, and how they should just up and leave and get rid of the bum. (And, interestingly, it's only women to whom this happens.)
As I'm sure you can imagine, this does NOT make those women happy.
Now, those three women aren't the only women on my friends list who complain about their husbands, boyfriends, wives, girlfriends, or partners of whatever stripe. But they get a lot more "get rid of the bum" comments than other folks do. Not that they're the only three women who have ever got "get rid of the bum" comments, but they get them a lot more. I see similar dynamics elsewhere on my friends list, but those three women get orders of magnitude more, and more virulent.
Now, one of the things which bothers me about this is that I see myself in all three husbands. I do many of the same things that all three of these "bums" do. And yet Lis assures me that she gets very few of those comments to her blog. ("What? From outside of my family?" she jokes. Actually, I'm pretty sure that her family likes me.)
So I was trying to think about what makes these three LJs different than the ones who get fewer, and the ones who get none.
Note: I'm talking specifically about "get rid of the bum"-type comments. Sympathetic "jeez that sucks" comments, I'm not talking about. Even "want me to smack him with a wet trout for you?"-type comments, I'm not talking about. I'm specifically talking about comments suggesting, in all seriousness, that the relationship is unsalvageable, and that she should leave him.
First: men don't get these comments. Only women do. Now, women, on my friends list, anyway, post about their relationships more than men do -- not that men don't, but on average, the posts from women about their spouses and partners are more frequent and more in-depth, so that gives more opportunity for comments. But that doesn't explain the whole thing -- you'd expect fewer comments to men, but not the absolute absence of them.
Second: in all three cases, children are involved, school-aged, infants, or showing up within nine months. Childless couples don't tend to get this stuff.
Third: in all three cases, lack-of-money is involved. To different extents -- I'd call one of the cases "money is kinda tight a lot of the time", one "money is always tight", and one "poverty", but folks who are pretty much financially secure don't get these comments.
So: why don't I get those comments made about me? Because Lis and I have no children, so people feel that Lis can make her own decisions, because I post about our relationship more than Lis does, and people don't make these comments to men, and because Lis and I, while not wealthy, are reasonably financially secure.
Okay, there's my observations about how people make observations on other people. I hope I was sufficiently vague not to shame anyone, and sufficiently specific to make interesting and possibly even useful comments.
As I'm sure you can imagine, this does NOT make those women happy.
Now, those three women aren't the only women on my friends list who complain about their husbands, boyfriends, wives, girlfriends, or partners of whatever stripe. But they get a lot more "get rid of the bum" comments than other folks do. Not that they're the only three women who have ever got "get rid of the bum" comments, but they get them a lot more. I see similar dynamics elsewhere on my friends list, but those three women get orders of magnitude more, and more virulent.
Now, one of the things which bothers me about this is that I see myself in all three husbands. I do many of the same things that all three of these "bums" do. And yet Lis assures me that she gets very few of those comments to her blog. ("What? From outside of my family?" she jokes. Actually, I'm pretty sure that her family likes me.)
So I was trying to think about what makes these three LJs different than the ones who get fewer, and the ones who get none.
Note: I'm talking specifically about "get rid of the bum"-type comments. Sympathetic "jeez that sucks" comments, I'm not talking about. Even "want me to smack him with a wet trout for you?"-type comments, I'm not talking about. I'm specifically talking about comments suggesting, in all seriousness, that the relationship is unsalvageable, and that she should leave him.
First: men don't get these comments. Only women do. Now, women, on my friends list, anyway, post about their relationships more than men do -- not that men don't, but on average, the posts from women about their spouses and partners are more frequent and more in-depth, so that gives more opportunity for comments. But that doesn't explain the whole thing -- you'd expect fewer comments to men, but not the absolute absence of them.
Second: in all three cases, children are involved, school-aged, infants, or showing up within nine months. Childless couples don't tend to get this stuff.
Third: in all three cases, lack-of-money is involved. To different extents -- I'd call one of the cases "money is kinda tight a lot of the time", one "money is always tight", and one "poverty", but folks who are pretty much financially secure don't get these comments.
So: why don't I get those comments made about me? Because Lis and I have no children, so people feel that Lis can make her own decisions, because I post about our relationship more than Lis does, and people don't make these comments to men, and because Lis and I, while not wealthy, are reasonably financially secure.
Okay, there's my observations about how people make observations on other people. I hope I was sufficiently vague not to shame anyone, and sufficiently specific to make interesting and possibly even useful comments.
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Date: 2006-10-22 04:56 am (UTC)Actually, once people have kids, unless one parent is actively harming the other, or the children, I tend to keep my mouth shut. But if someone is contemplating having a child with someone who does not seem like good parent material, if I have the opportunity, I'll say something. E.g. don't have a kid with someone who has unmet child support obligations for previous kids; that's just asking for trouble! It usually doesn't go over very well.
The core value at the center of this is that *children do not choose their parents; parents choose them*. And this is a crucial choice.
At the same time, if a person has kids with someone, they should realize that they are essentially partnered for as long as the kids are minors, whether they "Stay together" as a couple or not. One will have to deal with the hated evil ex around child support and visitation issues, even if the evil ex has gone AWOL.
**Irresponsible can be defined in many ways. I try very hard to avoid making judgments by gender, but it's not easy. The man does not *have* to be the breadwinner in a family -- if he's taking on major childcare and household responsibilities, and his partner is earning enough to support them all. And vice versa for a woman. (And of course I am assuming heterosexual pairings here, bleah.)
As far as the gender difference, I do think women are more likely to share their problems. I rarely hear of a man's problems with his partner until the relationship is unsalvageable. Sometimes a woman is just blowing off steam about little things, and other times she's not.