So, I came up with a pithy quote

[xiphias]

In weirdjews, I came up with a quote which, the more I think about it, the more I think I'm right. I said:

There are three lasting solutions to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. One is the complete destruction of the Palestinians. Two is the complete destruction of the Israelis.

I'm in favor of the third solution.

I'll let you know if I ever figure out what it is.

Now, really, "complete destruction" doesn't necessarily mean violence or death. It means the destruction of the identity of "Palestinian" or "Israeli".

Option 2 is just plain not going to happen. The identity of "Israeli", or "Zionist" has been around since at least 1897, if not before. And if, somehow, G-d forbid, all the Jews were kicked out of Israel, and Israel ceased to exist as a modern country, there would still be Zionists. So, Option 2 isn't happening.

Option 1: as a Zionist myself, although one who frequently feels that the government of Israel is doing the wrong thing, I would love it if all the people who think of themselves as Palestinians decided that they wanted to be active participants in the modern state of Israel, and decided that, fundamentally, they are Israelis. And that would be the ideal way that we would see the destruction of "the Palestinians" as a group distinct from "the Israelis".

But that's not going to happen, either. Their entire self-definition is based on what they're NOT as much as what they ARE -- and what they're NOT is Israelis. You just can't put that down easily.

There are plenty of Arab Israelis. Arab Israelis aren't Palestinians.

I can understand this emotional reaction. As a Jew, a significant part of my self identity is "not Christian."

It sucks, because I have a lot of Christian friends, and I can respect what they do with their Christianity, and that Christianity is a positive influence in their lives. Yet, my emotional response to the word "Christian" is strongly negative. And half my own family's Christian. (Interestingly, I've got a slight positive response to "Catholic", no response whatsoever to "Protestant", and "Quaker" is strongly positive.)

Comments

[red-frog.livejournal.com]

et, my emotional response to the word "Christian" is strongly negative. And half my own family's Christian. (Interestingly, I've got a slight positive response to "Catholic", no response whatsoever to "Protestant", and "Quaker" is strongly positive.)

I suspect that this isn't a Jewish thing. I was raised Catholic; I no longer practice because it doesn't fit me and I think the official Catholic church is very wrong about some things. But I hear "Christian" and cringe slightly. "Protestant" is more or less neutral--perhaps slightly negative. "Catholic" is slightly positive and "Quaker" positive although nothing to do with me.

Obviously, large corporations should hire the Quaker PR people.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

My only brand of oatmeal is Quaker Oats, and, if I have a brand preference on oil, it's Quaker State.

[adamek.livejournal.com]

Yes, and Quaker State was so wonderful in the alphabet game on long drives when I was growing up. QRSTU all in one sign.

--back to waiting for my database to update.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

But that's not going to happen, either. Their entire self-definition is based on what they're NOT as much as what they ARE -- and what they're NOT is Israelis. You just can't put that down easily.

You can't lay that all at the feet of the Palestinians -- I'm pretty sure that some Arab Israelis identify as Palestinian. Moreover, Palestinians living in the occupied territories don't have the option of becoming part of the state of Israel -- and if they did, it would be the end of Israel either as a democracy or as a Jewish state. Israel knows this, and has enacted policies intended to prevent that state of affairs from coming about. So long as being Jewish gives you rights in Israel that non-Jews don't have, nothing will be solved by Palestinians trying to assimilate anyway.

emotional reactions

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

interesting. i have a much more negative internal reaction to "christian" than to "jew", to which i have a mildly positive reaction (i was raised christian, and am now an atheist -- and it's definitely part of my self-defiition that i am "not christian"). "protestant" feels almost neutral, "quaker", like you, feels very positive, "catholic" negative, though not as much as "christian", "jesuit" slightly positive, "calvinist" very negative (that's how i was raised), "fundamentalist" extremely negative, "muslim" slightly negative.

it doesn't really suck much because i know these are prejudicial impulse reactions, and i am on top of them intellectually.

[felis-sidus.livejournal.com]

These are intriguing responses. I don't have a negative reaction to any religion that I can think of. At least, if I do, I can't find it, so it must not be very strong. Wait, I take that back. I have a strongly negative reaction to the term "Scientology".

It's interesting that pleonastic lists "Jesuit" among various religions. The Jesuits are a Catholic religious order, rather than a religion, but they've made a big enough impression to get their own mention, and a positive one at that, when Catholicism got a negative nod. I don't attribute any meaning to this, I just find it interesting.

It's also interesting that the term "Christian" consistently produces more negative reactions than specific Christian religions. Could this be because when people think "Christian" they're thinking of the extreme Christian Right in the USA? If so, it may be worth remembering that however vocal they may be, they actually represent a tiny minority of Christians world-wide and in this country.