xiphias: (Default)
[personal profile] xiphias
As I am many years, I'm struck by how little the Channukah story really has to do with the historical events on which it's ostensibly based.

And I taught my class, again this year, the story of Channukah. Which is a different thing than the story told in the Books of Maccabees I and II, which is why those books aren't in the Jewish scriptures, and is a very different thing that the historical events which actually happened.

And of those three things -- the historical truth, the Biblical record, and the folktale passed down from generation to generation -- I decided, and rightly so, that the important one to teach was the folktale.

Because that's the one with the lessons that I want them to learn. And I'm quite willing to tell them that this is the folktale, not the historical events. And that, in this case, the folktale is more important than the history, at least for them, at least right now.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-07 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarianna.livejournal.com
Erm. Care to enlighten this former Catholic schoolgirl as to the differences?

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 04:24 am (UTC)
goljerp: Photo of the moon Callisto (Default)
From: [personal profile] goljerp
Here's my brief understanding; Xiphias will correct me where I stray from the facts. Well, OK, maybe it's not that brief.

The Folktale that the Rabbis of the Talmmud promulgated is that Channukah is about a miracle: the Temple was desecrated but then rededicated, and there was enough oil for one day in the lamp which was supposed to be continually burning. It would be 8 days before more pure oil could arrive. The miracle is that the oil lasted all 8 days. Yay!

The book of Maccabees I and II describe a war. Evil Greek (well, Selucid) ruler promulgates oppressive anti-Jewish laws, and the brave Jews (led by Judah Maccabee and his family, known as Hasmoneans for some odd reason) rise up and throw off the oppressive yoke. Jews win big victories, and in response promise to celebrate the holiday of Hanukah every year in celebration of their military victory. Oh, and also Yom Nicanor, celebrating the biggest victory, which will be a day of feasting and celebration forever.[1]

The historic reality is that the "oppressive anti-jewish laws" were probably put in place at the request of some of the Jews who wanted Jerusalem to become a "Greek" city, and thus eligable for tax breaks and other significant advantages within the Greek empire. (This was a common occurance at the time.) The Hasmonean rebellion, despite a few early victories, was crushed brutally and the Hasmoneans took their army (well, what was left of it), and became a mercenary bunch of thugs and thieves. They did, however, manage to be in the right place at the right time during a power struggle within the Selucid empire, and as a result of fighting on the right (winning) side, a Hasmonean was appointed King of the vassal-state of Judah. (Or was it called Israel then? I forget.) The Hasmoneans were also priests. Time passed, with Hasmonean priest-kings, and lots of back-stabbing (literally), and they eventually invited the Romans (who'd taken over the Selucid empire) in to rule...

[1] The Rabbis of the Talmud weren't fond of Rome, and weren't fond of priests who were also rulers, and weren't fond of Hanukah at all. They weren't able to squash Channukah, but were able to effectively take Yom Nicanor off the books; nobody celebrates that any more.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 06:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com
They managed to use the Fast of Esther to wipe out Yom Nicanor. Which I find amusing. I wonder if the over-the-topness of Purim is in part a way to make up for wiping out Yom Nicanor the day before. . .

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-08 07:02 am (UTC)
goljerp: Photo of the moon Callisto (Default)
From: [personal profile] goljerp
You mant to say "They invented the Fast of Esther to wipe out Yom Nicanor". (I left that little detail out above, because, well, it was an aside to a footnote...)

I wonder if the over-the-topness of Purim is in part a way to make up for wiping out Yom Nicanor the day before

Could be... or it could just be a spring fling kinda thing.

Lengthy Waffle

Date: 2004-12-09 06:56 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hi Xiphias! I had forgotten that you had this thing. It seems like a great resource for JEd stuff!

Anyroad - My somewhat disorganised tuppence ha'penny...

Events may happen (I am not committed on this point, but lets just say ;)). *Historical* events are constructed. So from the outset I find the business of 'what happened vs. what we say happened' peculiar. The 'myth vs historical reality' debate is actually 'what we say happened vs what else we say happened'. That is not to say that I am willing to relinquish the notion of accuracy, but I resist making the notion identical with 'historiographically orthodox' (forgive the ugly phrase).

So there was a war, and a celebration. The question we keep asking is - what are we celebrating - victory (human), victory (divine), or miraculous menorah bizness? The texts recited with the celebration of chanukah specifically mention: Miracles (nissim), Astounding things (niflaot), Milchamot (battles), and T'shuot (salvations). These are explicitly attributed to God, but special mention is made of the instrumental role of the (human) priestly caste (including, at least potentially, the maccabees) 'Al ydei coheneicha hakadoshim'. So it looks to me like the Rabbis are covering all the bases that we addressed at the top of this paragraph. That is to say, they actually don't (despite what we like to claim) resolve our hermeneutic anxiety about the 'real origin' of Chanukah.

They do tell the story of the oil in the talmud, and don't talk about the war, but this is not surprising - the Rabbi's have no sense of historiography, it is not a genre they indulge in. Where are those other juicy historical narratives in the Talmud? We usually say that it's not surprising given the political climate in Judea at the time of the redaction of the Mishnah, and the consequent political quietism of the Rabbis. That's also true.

The mitzvah of Chanukah is 'pirsum haness' making public the miracle. The nature of this miracle is somewhat obscure to us. But this is in the nature of miracles - ness means 'banner'. It's even clearer if we use the synonym 'Ot' meaning a sign. The 'sign' requires us to bring an interpretive framework to bear, and leaves us with the anxiety of the undetermined. We are always left unstable with regard to the relationship between the sign under consideration and the system within which the sign is operating. The Rabbis describe the signifier -they describe it as the continual burning of a lamp- the signified is left open (as, in truth, it is always left in language). [excuse me, I'm trying to work something out as I go here] We are confronted with this indeterminacy, and told that it has great significance. It points to the need to place the sign into a context (or rather with a text,another set of signs, to place it*con*text). The sign/miracle, as with all signs, can only be understood when compared alongside other signs/miracles. We must look for miracle everywhere, if we are to understand the 'significance' of the singular miracle that we publicise at chanukah.

OK, I was wrong when I said that using the term 'sign/ot' would make things clearer.

Lengthy Waffle continued

Date: 2004-12-09 06:57 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The signifier that the Rabbis have enjoined us to use is the burning flame, itself always flickering... impossible to determine. Moreover we are explicitly forbidden to make use of this light for any purpose other than to 'give thanks and praise to God for 'your miracles, and your astoundings, and your salvations'. We cannot make instrumental use of this light. There is something here that speaks to the holiness of language, and exhorts us not to mangle it (mea culpa), not to try to reduce it to determinacy (the sin of the generation of Babel), not to think that we can pin it, and thus reality, down and make it serve us. We are to appreciate it's 'miracleness' and its 'astoundingness', and mysteriously, its 'salvific' power.

'Historical events', like 'mythical events' are like a part of language. We try to parse them, and create a syntax that allows us to comprehend the world.

No wonder we are so obsessed with trying to find the correct context with which to understand Chanukah! It is most fitting to try to understand the meaning of the miracle, the sign created by God. It is fascinating that we can do this both by affiriming and by denying the 'historical reality' of the long-lasting oil. It also seems important to me that although we may go down one avenue or the other at different times, we do not dismiss either interpretive possibilty, which is why I try not to contrast the 'oil bit' with the 'historical reality', or saying that the oil story was made up, as this creates such a strong hierarchy for kids who associate 'historical' with 'true'. Somehow leaving it open seems fitting.

Wow, what a load of waffle. I think I'll print it out for kitah aleph! : )

Chanukah Sameach,

Rafi

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-09 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] micheinnz.livejournal.com
And this is why you are a good teacher.

(no subject)

Date: 2004-12-10 10:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alaria-lyon.livejournal.com
Hi Xiphias.

Here is an article in the Jerusalem Post (you need to suscribe, but its free) about Chanukah and its meaning that I thought you might be interested in.

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