Just a notice:

[xiphias]

The following things all exist:
Clinical depression
Attention decific disorder
Medical conditions which lead to female sexual dysfunction.
Chronic heartburn from acid reflux.

I'm pretty sure that these all exist, because these are the things that Lis and I have, and take medications for daily.

And yet, I've heard from various people over the years that every one of these 1) doesn't exist, 2) is overdiagnosed, 3) shouldn't be treated, 4) is all in your head.

Even the acid reflux one.

It infuriates me. I'm literally shaking.

Comments

[fallenkalina.livejournal.com]

I can understand overdiagnosed (esp with ADD, which I do have) but not treated? All in your head? Doesn't exist? Some people just don't have a view that extends beyond themselves.

[msmidge.livejournal.com]

How could heartburn be in your head?!

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

It only happens because you eat bad things and if you actually took care of yourself and didn't overeat and weren't a glutton, you wouldn't have heartburn.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Oh! I'd been meaning to throw this into a link sausage, but haven't gotten a chance to, and it felt weird to respond to a random post of yours:

F.D.A. to Review Drug to Increase Women’s Sex Drive

[cheshyre]

We know. That's what's got us shaking so badly with anger. Because of responses like ginmar's.

[lietya.livejournal.com]

Poly people don't exist, either.

Don't listen to the idiots.

(I particularly like the trope about how we're "drugging kids into submission" with Ritalin, because *obviously* Ritalin makes normal kids less hyper. Right. I've had that argument a few times now.)

*hugs* if you want them. I also suggest punching the offender in the nose and then telling them that that's all in their head.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

The offender is in Iraq, and armed. And generally a really cool person.

[navrins]

I would have said clinical depression was all in your head and overdiagnosed, till I discovered I had it, and my girlfriend (at the time) had it worse than I did.

Some things are just really hard to relate to if you've never experienced them.

(And I suspect they are all overdiagnosed and overtreated, but that doesn't mean that some of the diagnoses aren't accurate and appropriately treated.)

[estherchaya.livejournal.com]

(And I suspect they are all overdiagnosed and overtreated, but that doesn't mean that some of the diagnoses aren't accurate and appropriately treated.)

My guess is that female sexual dysfunction is actually underdiagnosed.

[erin-c-1978.livejournal.com]

*nod* My own brother once told me casually, over dinner, that: depression/anxiety is never caused by brain chemistry, just a crappy life; that my taking Zoloft for depression was the equivalent of recreationally smoking pot; that he values his mind too much to ever consider taking any kind of antidepressant no matter how depressed he was. Mind you, by this time he'd once seen me land myself in the hospital for depression-related reasons, and that without the Zoloft I'd either be dead or a gibbering, friendless wreck.

What's worse...

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

I had a strange temp stint once at a mock trial put on by both the prosecution and the defense. A kid's family's pediatrician had put him on Prilosec even though it wasn't approved for children, and he'd died while he was on it. He had a dozen health problems, and the reflux contributed to his death, but it wasn't clear that the Prilosec killed him.

It seemed clear to me from the evidence that the person who should have been sued, BTW, was the family doc, not the drug company, but some shyster or other greedyguts talked the family into sueing the drug company. All the drug company materials were very clear that this wasn't a drug for children. The drug may have kept the kid comfortable for the last few months of his life, admittedly, though.

Anyway, what bothered me was the crap they kept spouting about treating his "heartburn" with Rolaids or Tums. Acid reflux is not heartburn, damn it. I wanted to take the person they were quoting, block up the end of his esophagus and pour about a pint of stomach acid in there and leave it for a day, then see how he felt about it. GRRRRRRR!

Furthermore, I'm an asthmatic. There are at least six studies showing that asthmatics have a lot of problems with reflux--attacks triggered because we aspirate acid, etc. When my reflux is controlled, I wheeze much less. Now they're coming out with this BS about people who take Prilosec and Prevacid for long periods getting more pneumonia. Well, hell, I had pneumonia four times before I took the stuff and have had it once since. Sheesh.

[wolfshaman.livejournal.com]

Well I know of 3 of the 4 from personnel experience. The only one I suffer is diagnosed acid reflux. I was diagnosed because it was causing swallowing difficulties and once it was treated my swallowing is fine.

People don't want to think these things exist I guess. Reminds me of the flat earthers.
:)

[mattblum.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more.

I remember when I was first diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome years ago. Not only did I encounter people all the time who thought I "just needed to get more sleep," or that it was all in my head, but I encountered several doctors who thought that! Needless to say, I didn't go back to the doctors who said things like that, but it just blew my mind that something that the CDC recognizes as a medical condition could be shrugged off by actual physicians.

I guess a lot of it has to do with people having a hard time believing anything they can't see. You say you get really bad heartburn after you eat? Well, how do I know that's true? You say you have trouble finding the will to get out of bed in the morning? You must be some kind of slacker.

Doctors used to think that migraines were just due to stress--that the pain was just telling you to relax. Now, while they still don't know exactly why migraines happen, they at least know that there is a chemical change inside the brain when they happen. Unfortunately, a lot of laypeople don't know that, so I still get a lot of looks that say "Stop being such a wimp" when I get a migraine at work or in public somewhere. People who've never had one just have no conception of how painful they can be.

[msmidge.livejournal.com]

I didn't know that about migraines and chemical change--do you know if there is work toward making some kind of preventative drug that can keep that chemical change from happening, for people who get migraines frequently?

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

My mother was convinced that morning sickness didn't exist even after seven months of it. There is no persuading some people. So long as they don't have the power to take my treatment away from me, I try hard to ignore them. Their ignorance is not my problem.

I know what you mean.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

Tell the Flat Earthers to take a hike. They're full of themselves and will eventually explode from the internal pressure.

*offers you hugs*

[goljerp]

Gah.

You know what this reminds me of? I remember a time when I was a little boy, and my mom had a headache. I'd never experienced one, so I asked her what it was like. She said something like, well, my head hurts. I didn't really get it -- heads don't hurt, unless you hit them on something, right? And then it's a sharp pain, not a dull throbbing one.

These people are reacting on that level. They probably haven't experienced the problems, so they can't exist. Or they're all in the head. Or they shouldn't be treated.

The "is overdiagnosed" opinion is harder to dismiss as childish, because what exactly does that mean? For some people, they probably just think of that as a more polite way of saying it's all in your head or it shouldn't be treated.

On the other hand, there may be a real point to it. The problem is, the things that you're talking about are tricky to diagnose.

Some things are easy to diagnose. Let's take "high cholesterol". According to the American Heart Association, there are three basic categories: desirable (less than 200 mg/dL), "borderline high risk" (200-239), and "high risk" (240 and up). Of course, things get more complicated quickly, but what if suddenly, despite any evidence of a link to heart attacks or anything, people with 150-200 mg/dL cholesterol levels were being diagnosed as having "high cholesterol". Then I'd say, "high cholesterol is being overdiagnosed".

Things get tricky, but ultimately there's a quantifiable number. But other things are much harder to diagnose. For example, how do you put a number on a hyperactive kid? How "active" is "hyperactive", anyhow? That's harder to say. I have a friend (who is a MD) whose son is on a hyperactivity drug. It was a very hard decision for my friend, and he did not rush into it. But his son is now on the meds, and seems to be doing well. Was this a justified decision? I think so. Does this mean that every child who's on the drugs really needs to be? How would I know? Do I think that hyperactivity is overdiagnosed? Maybe... but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't ever be diagnosed.

[greenlily.livejournal.com]

yeah, I really don't get how people make the mental connection from "I do not have this problem" to "I have the right and/or responsibility to tell other people who believe they have this problem that they should not get treatment for it". Idiots. *hugs*

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*hugs* That just sucks. I prefer not to be told that bisexuals don't exist, myself, for fear that I might poof out of existance like tinkerbell when people stop clapping. Being told that many people believe female BDSMers don't exist kinda just made me blink, since a) the guy saying it had disproved it, not agreed with it, and b) in that room we outnumbered the men.

[red-queen.livejournal.com]

Invisible illnesses are a bitch. With ugly puppies.

It's very hard to get an objective test reading for any of the above (except acid reflux). It's not *impossible*, but it is difficult. Most diagnoses of depression, ADD, and FSD are accomplished anecdotally, which is intrinisically subjective. Doesn't help matters, does it? I'd cheerfully (okay, *willingly*) undergo a CAT scan or MRI or blood test, or SOMETHING by way of physiological test that gave me objective evidence of my own depression and ADD. But no doctor I've ever seen has required or requested it, and it wouldn't make a significant difference in treatment anyway. Sigh.

Even tho' I've had clinical depression for most of my live, and been on meds for it for a dozen years, I still have trouble separating the illness from my "self" -- my brain and its chemistry from my mind. I was diagnosed with ADD ~ 6 years ago, and have been taking meds for it, too, and have similar ideological difficulties. Every time I read an offhand article referring to anti-depressants as "happy pills," I hit the roof. Would that they were! (free inside! Irony!) *When* they work (and they don't always), they put in a floor so that I don't keep falling forever without sound. They don't make me "happy."

Yeah, part of ADD is socially constructed, but what gets you a diagnosis is *how much it interferes with your daily life*. If it's getting in your way all the time, keeping you from doing what you want and/or need to do, you are entitled to treat it! Sigh.

A friend of mine actually said that he thought a number of his friends were "addicted" to their anti-depressants. Someone else reamed him for that one -- I couldn't decide which of the many ways that comment infuriated me was the one to write about...

editrx had a lovely rant a couple of weeks ago about a Salon article about recreational use of Provigil and how it trivialized folks who took the drug (a stimulant) for honest medical reasons. To their credit, Salon printed her letter-to-editor. editrx takes it for lupus-related fatigue; I knew someone else who took it for MS-related fatigue; I used to take it for ADD. (FWIW, if one's response to certain types of meds confirms a diagnosis related to abnormal brain chemistry, I can certainly qualify. I could take 2 Provigil and go back to sleep. Ditto Concerta (a time-release form of Ritalin).)

And in spite of all of this verbiage I've tossed in, in spite of all my years of therapy -- do you know, I STILL blame myself for my illnesses? And yeah, I know it's not my fault, that I can take responsibility for managing them, etc. etc. I am still trying to make peace with my brain, my mind, and my self.

[cheshyre]

It's very hard to get an objective test reading for any of the above (except acid reflux).
Actually, certain varieties of FSD (namely hormone deficiencies) can be diagnosed with a blood test.
But apparently ginmar thinks it's better to have couples reexamine their entire lives before having a single blood test to rule out hormone problems and/or permit doctors to prescribe a solution to that particular issue.

Unfortunately ginmar has locked the post, and she and tanacawyr have both unfriended me since I got involved in the discussion. [And I've known tanacawyr for over a decade on Usenet -- that hurts!]

[beckyzoole.livejournal.com]

She's just friends-locked the post. Gah.

[temima.livejournal.com]

She does that often, when she finds that OMG people disagree with her and have good reasons to tell her so she's getting too many comments to read.

Me? Just bitter.

[mswae.livejournal.com]

People are idiots, and the ones who have opinions on the topic are often insecure or jealous or afflicted themselves and trying to project their ideas of how to handle themselves onto you.

I am going to be a doctor (still not over being able to say that), and I take all four of those diseases seriously. I believe in applying open-eyed intellectual rigor to solving the very real problems and refusing to be polarized into either the "it's all in your head" camp or into the "buy our $$$$ medications for everything, even stuff you don't have" camp. Just because both positions exist doesn't mean either has to be right. Your problems are as real as mine or anyone else's and I and people like me are out there to help work to make them better.

By the way, I have had depression in the past, still have ADD, and recently got diagnosed with acid reflux, though I'm currently able to manage it with diet. And while I don't have FSD, I was on a medication once which gave me the symptoms of it and I know how frustrating it was for myself and for my boyfriend. And at least we knew what the problem was and that it could go away. So I believe in all of them, and I sympathize.

[kyra-ojosverdes.livejournal.com]

I have a hard time controlling my "mama bear" urges when someone tells me that my sons have made-up conditions and are having excuses made for them. Without medication, my nine year old son cannot read more than a paragraph. With medication, he's one of the top students in his class and is a very skilled and rapid reader. My ten year old also has clinical depression. (He got it from me: I've had depression since around age 7, but it wasn't treated until my 20s.) I get defensive and angry when people tell me that children don't get depressed, or that I am harming my son by medicating his depression. If I get perturbed enough, I remind them that suicide is a pretty widespread and irreversible effect of depression and one that concerns me a lot more than the potential side-effects of the medications.

[hangedwoman.livejournal.com]

I don't often hear of too many other people in whom depression manifested itself so young (for me it was around 8). Yet at the same time, even though I still wasn't treated, apparently at one point a doctor told my mother that many childhood "accidents" are in fact suicide or suicide attempts. To me it's awfully strange that we've apparently known this for a long time, yet we still have difficulty in making the mental leap that young children suffer from depression.

[hangedwoman.livejournal.com]

Wow, this just sucks all around. I'm sorry. *hugs*

[ailbhe]

Oh, *hugs*. I ended up in tears today because the nurse told me that my post-birth trauma is "nothing" and I "just shouldn't worry." And acid reflux nearly killed - killed dead - my nephew. Dead. Dead dead dead dead dead. He was born weighing less than 5lb and he could have been *dead* due to acid reflux.

So shit yeah, that's imaginary.

(I've never had ADD diagnosed but depression yeah, and hormone-related total loss of libido perhaps, and other imaginary things like RSI and PMS and PTSD.)

I'm glad I can't read the original article.

A.

[angelovernh.livejournal.com]

:::gentle hugs:::

I've had lots of depression..
and acid reflux and heartburn, as well.

Whatever your experience is IS your experience. If medications you are taking are helping you then that is what is important!

[marquisedea.livejournal.com]

i know i personally just come from a place where i've seen friends, who were obviously just intelligent kids who were bored in school, be diagnosed with "ADD" and suffer horribly from ritalin and awful drugs that just messed them up.

[temima.livejournal.com]

Dear God, do not get me started on the subject. You'll hear twitching, drooling and frequent incentive on people who think they are being really alternative by dismissing other people's experiences and Scientologists.

[(Anonymous)]

I can sympathize.

I never saw the original post. And this made me so angry I was (almost) literally shaking, and couldn't get any work done. Although maybe not for the same reasons.

People should learn to let other people make their own choices. Valuing ones own experience does not mean forcing it down someone else's throat.

I'd like to say more. But to do it properly I'd have to bring up some very personal issues (like why and how I was committed to Newton-Wellesley). I don't feel comfortable doing that in public.

Kiralee

[jehanna.livejournal.com]

I hear you there. I think Ari and I could put together a similar list of conditions we share that have received the same responses at various times. Hell, her family is STILL in denial about one rather important point where she's concerned. :P