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So, what is depression like for me?
Since people are talking about depression, I figured I'd maybe try to write down a little bit about what my depression is like.
One of the main ways my depression shows up is an inability to Do Stuff. I find myself doing some sort of repetitive, pointless time-waster just to be doing SOMETHING, but if I don't have something like that to do, I'll just sit in the corner doing nothing.
Computer games are one of the major time-wasters I use, but not having computer games doesn't help, since I'll just end up sitting on the floor doing nothing, instead. But I've spent six hours playing endless games of computer solitaire. I flunked out of college through playing Nethack over and over again.
The games I play like this have to be ones I can play without thinking. Not necessarily play WELL without thinking -- I played a third of the games of Nethack played at Brandeis, and rarely made the high score list -- but I have to be able to do it mindlessly.
Sometimes I'll read, instead. But I rarely remember what I've read.
Or I'll play guitar, but that rarely lasts long, because that actually takes brainpower. So I'll pull out my guitar, and play for about ten seconds, and stop.
Medication allows me to, sometimes, get out of this state. But my better mood-states are always fragile. And I can feel them collapse.
Sometimes, I can be in a good mood, and I can feel the mood crumble, as if it was a tower of blocks that someone knocked over, or, perhaps, as if it was a very brittle sand castle. Sometimes it feels more like my good mood is some sort of viscous liquid that drains out of a grate in the bottom of my soul.
When I'm in a good mood, I have to protect it carefully, because I know that any sudden shock will make it crumble, or drain.
If I'm busy, or dealing with people, it can give some sort of protection from my mood crumbling, sometimes. But being busy is exhausting and can make a later crash worse. It's a balancing act. I rarely get seriously depressed while I'm working, but often do when I'm done.
And it can hit very suddenly. I can be feeling perfectly wonderful, and then it can hit, and, within ten seconds, I'm depressed.
I generally try not to show when I'm depressed, because it would upset people. I mean, I have friends. Who like me. And, because they like me, they don't like to see me in pain. So I therefore try not to let them see me in pain, even if I am in pain. I see no reason why other people should be less happy simply because I am not happy. Happiness is valuable -- I think that people who are depressive know that more deeply than people to whom happiness comes easily. And, because it's valuable, I don't want to see any of it wasted. If my unhappiness will harm other people's happiness, then I don't want to expose other people's happiness to my unhappiness.
Happiness doesn't come easily. It takes work, and care, and medication, and, even then, it's delicate and fleeting. It's rare, and valuable. And because of that, it's a worthwhile thing to try to bring happiness to other people. Even if I can't experience it very well myself, if I can bring it to others, that's worth doing.
Because my depression is primarily biochemical in nature, I have gotten used to thinking of emotional states as being entirely distinct from outside events. I rarely think of questions like "why am I unhappy," because I've gotten used to there being no cause. So I think of emotional states to be just things that happen, like the weather. One can't really DO anything about them -- they just show up. I can, sometimes, through a force of will, hang on to a mood-state, but I can't CREATE one. And outside events can't, either.
I'm beginning to learn that that isn't true. There are times that I get unhappy because bad stuff happens, or happy because good things happen. But I'm not used to thinking that way, so I don't look for causes like that. If someone insults me, or attacks me, and I become upset or depressed, I'm likely to think of those events as entirely unrelated -- even though, logically, I'm beginning to realize that they probably ARE related.
Oh -- and, when I say "unhappy", I mean "a state of feeling like there is a yawning empty void inside the middle of your soul."
One of the main ways my depression shows up is an inability to Do Stuff. I find myself doing some sort of repetitive, pointless time-waster just to be doing SOMETHING, but if I don't have something like that to do, I'll just sit in the corner doing nothing.
Computer games are one of the major time-wasters I use, but not having computer games doesn't help, since I'll just end up sitting on the floor doing nothing, instead. But I've spent six hours playing endless games of computer solitaire. I flunked out of college through playing Nethack over and over again.
The games I play like this have to be ones I can play without thinking. Not necessarily play WELL without thinking -- I played a third of the games of Nethack played at Brandeis, and rarely made the high score list -- but I have to be able to do it mindlessly.
Sometimes I'll read, instead. But I rarely remember what I've read.
Or I'll play guitar, but that rarely lasts long, because that actually takes brainpower. So I'll pull out my guitar, and play for about ten seconds, and stop.
Medication allows me to, sometimes, get out of this state. But my better mood-states are always fragile. And I can feel them collapse.
Sometimes, I can be in a good mood, and I can feel the mood crumble, as if it was a tower of blocks that someone knocked over, or, perhaps, as if it was a very brittle sand castle. Sometimes it feels more like my good mood is some sort of viscous liquid that drains out of a grate in the bottom of my soul.
When I'm in a good mood, I have to protect it carefully, because I know that any sudden shock will make it crumble, or drain.
If I'm busy, or dealing with people, it can give some sort of protection from my mood crumbling, sometimes. But being busy is exhausting and can make a later crash worse. It's a balancing act. I rarely get seriously depressed while I'm working, but often do when I'm done.
And it can hit very suddenly. I can be feeling perfectly wonderful, and then it can hit, and, within ten seconds, I'm depressed.
I generally try not to show when I'm depressed, because it would upset people. I mean, I have friends. Who like me. And, because they like me, they don't like to see me in pain. So I therefore try not to let them see me in pain, even if I am in pain. I see no reason why other people should be less happy simply because I am not happy. Happiness is valuable -- I think that people who are depressive know that more deeply than people to whom happiness comes easily. And, because it's valuable, I don't want to see any of it wasted. If my unhappiness will harm other people's happiness, then I don't want to expose other people's happiness to my unhappiness.
Happiness doesn't come easily. It takes work, and care, and medication, and, even then, it's delicate and fleeting. It's rare, and valuable. And because of that, it's a worthwhile thing to try to bring happiness to other people. Even if I can't experience it very well myself, if I can bring it to others, that's worth doing.
Because my depression is primarily biochemical in nature, I have gotten used to thinking of emotional states as being entirely distinct from outside events. I rarely think of questions like "why am I unhappy," because I've gotten used to there being no cause. So I think of emotional states to be just things that happen, like the weather. One can't really DO anything about them -- they just show up. I can, sometimes, through a force of will, hang on to a mood-state, but I can't CREATE one. And outside events can't, either.
I'm beginning to learn that that isn't true. There are times that I get unhappy because bad stuff happens, or happy because good things happen. But I'm not used to thinking that way, so I don't look for causes like that. If someone insults me, or attacks me, and I become upset or depressed, I'm likely to think of those events as entirely unrelated -- even though, logically, I'm beginning to realize that they probably ARE related.
Oh -- and, when I say "unhappy", I mean "a state of feeling like there is a yawning empty void inside the middle of your soul."
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Answers from others who've experienced this situation (from either side) greatly appreciated. And it helps me to have these things written down rather than verbal and ephemeral.
Ian, I hope you don't mind me sidetracking your thread in this manner.
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Anyway, what my husband does is when he notices there's a problem and that I'm depressed, he'll ask, "Hon? What's wrong?" and we start talking. He refuses to take "I don't want to talk about it," as an answer, but that's just how he is.
Recently, when I had an extended funk, I at least made myself go out and walk around downtown Seattle. It did nothing to improve my mood, but it kept it from getting worse.
Between the two of you, I know you'll come up with a solution.
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When I am spaced out completely and out of touch? I have dissociated, and it is probably a damned good thing because I am on the verge of doing myself in, so I may be quite different from how Ian is when he can't do anything. I know when I am like that I want someone that I can trust to take control of the situation, because I feel so out of control, even if I don't look like it. I want someone to be able to make some decisions (for instance, is it time to get hospitalized? Do we need to call the therapist?) without asking me for input. But that is during a very severe episode, when I am not responding to outside stimuli.
Still, sometimes it does feel good to have someone hand you a jacket and say, "come one, we are going for a walk", or make you a cup of tea and say " You need to talk" and take some decision making out of your hands.
At least, that is the way *I* feel when it gets bad.
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I discovered this by accident, when I saved someone's life because I needed a babysitter, but have since done it on purpose.
And Ian? Equality does not mean precise equivalents. I can't carry boxes, you can. (And thank you again!) Your shared unhappiness likewise isn't going to make me unhappy, because my happiness isn't that fragile. I mean I am *sorry* you're not happy, I empathise, but it doesn't shake my equilibrium.
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I'm amused that Ian posted this now. In the interval between the last time I read LJ this morning and now, I was thinking of having a discussion very similar to that with someone I know who is clearly exhibiting all the signs of depression and (as far as I know) doing nothing about it. And probably won't, even if I suggest it, because, well, when you're depressed you don't want to *do* anything. Depression isn't happy, but it's comfortable, and it's all too easy to rationalize not doing anything unless there's someone in your life with sufficient clout to drag you to a doctor and make you take the drugs he prescribes, or some event in your life that kicks you into doing something (it was 9/11/01 for me).
And I was going to post about that frustration, but here is as good a place as my journal. (The person of whom I'm thinking doesn't read either, so far as I know.)
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That's what I did this go-round, as I finally realized how low he was sinking and how long this bout had been going on. [It's been so gradual a decline that it was hard to notice until it got pretty bad.] Then *I* made the appointment for him (he was somewhat upset that I did so) and accompanied him to the doctor, and he's now starting on an additional med to see if that helps.
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I resented it at the time, and still think it was perhaps the wrong call, but I appreciated then and appreciate now the /effort/ involved.
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Sometimes I just need to be taken care of for a bit.
Sometimes I need someone to ask, "Are you okay?". I need them to tell me that they care about me, without putting pressure on me to suddenly be all cheerful. And I need them to know that just then, I can't actually receive any help from them, but that what they do to help me will be appreciated later. I need them to not expect instant results and comfort me anyway.
I find there are lots of small lifestyle factors that usually contribute to my depression, and fixing any one of them will help but only a little bit. I need support while I try to get several things coordinated and working for me again. I need someone to say "Hey, ewt, is that what you really want to do?" without scaring me. This can be rather delicate.
I don't know if any of this applies to anyone else, I can only speak for myself. Every person is different and every depression is different.
It's difficult to put into writing what will help when I don't always know what will help me in a given situation, or I don't know whether what worked last time will work this time. There aren't always hard-and-fast rules about what helps and what doesn't, I don't want to tell someone that something will help if I'm not sure it will, and by the time I'm severely depressed I may be so out of touch that I can't put into words what I need anyway. If it were consistent then I could avoid depression entirely.
I wish I had a simple answer for you, but I don't.
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Ignore it? Try to pull you out of it? Option-the-third?
If I see you at home just repetitively playing Sims, should I kick you off the computer and make you do chores and get out in the sunshine, or should I just let you play computer games all day?
If I see you lumped in the halls at the con, should I leave you to mope, let you go home alone, or stick with you (dragging you to parties you're not in a mood for or following you home when I want to stay)?
This question here used to drive my family members up a tree. Because they *wanted* to help, and they didn't want to see me in pain. But most of the time when they tried to help, it just made things worse, and I was never in a state where I could articulate *why*, or be able to ask for the things that would have been appreciated. And I never considered, during the times when I *was* coherent enough, creating some sort of "care-and-feeding of a depressed Brian" guide.
One of the big ones, for me (YMMV) is that sometimes I wanted to be left alone to wallow for a while. And sometimes I wanted to snap out of it, but couldn't. I consider it kinda screwed up, but even now I sometimes get into a state where I *want* to just be depressed for a few hours. It's kinda like resting. Being happy is *hard*, because I'm constantly on edge and waiting for it to crumble, or whatever. Being depressed is easy, I just play games and listen to music and stop caring. And there's really no way to tell from outside which state I'm in. So step one, if I had anyone close enough to me to be making such steps, would be to ask me if I wanted help in snapping out of it. (Also because I very much recognize the power of ritualistic questions. If someone just asks me how I'm feeling, they'll get a non-commital grunt. Because that's such a common question, and there's no good answer to it. A specific question for a specific purpose is much more likely to spawn useful thought processes and a useful answer.) If I were to answer in the negative, then there's really not much that can be done. Nothing productive, anyways. If I answer in the affirmative, then there's a few things that are likely to help. Generally, anything involving sunlight, laughter, food, loud things, or physical exertion. In some sort of combination. And I'll probably have to be poked, prodded, and/or dragged into it, but I'll thank the dragger later.
questions about handling a depressed person
parental-nagging is likely to only induce resentment and guilt, but that doesn't mean we can't do anything for each other -- we just can't nag. but we can encourage.
it's largely an attitude thing, and the language that works denotes the attitude that works. i don't think of it as "kick me off the computer and make me do things", i think of it as "offer me easy and useful alternatives to wasting my time". part of the depressive inertia for me is that choices become very difficult, and even the simplest activity seems to be prefaced by various hurdles of choices i have to make: i need to go grocery shopping, but i really should first take a shower, and make a list so i don't forget half of what we need, and put gas in the truck, and if i go to the store, surely i can also go to the bank to deposit a checque...
taking some of the hurdles away helps. joking about the inertia helps (real joking, not passive-aggressive snarking). offering bribes (while buying groceries i can also buy licorice!) helps. doing things with me helps. the latter has probably been the biggest surprise for me since i've always been very independent, and i do definitely still like doing things by myself. but when chores fall victim to the depression, it really helps to do them together with somebody who also has the right attitude about this sort of thing.
we've learned to communicate fairly clearly when we're in the standard mood where choices are hard, but still possible to make, as opposed to when we just need to rest from the never-ending fight. i think that is a hard thing to learn, but once i had it down it became relatively easy to determine, and i can therefore tell my partner whether to leave me to "mope". (that is not the state i am in. the state i am in is emotional exhaustion -- language and attitude really matter, did i mention that :).
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For me, it's either pacing around the apartment staring at the floor, browsing the web looking at the same ten sites over and over again, or just lying on the couch with the TV on tuned to nothing in particular (usually infomercials since I don't have to pay attention to those) and floating in and out of consciousness.
I also have to have regular medication reviews to make sure it's still working. Counseling is also something I consider doing on a regular basis.
I know how tough this is. My last serious bout was recently, and it go so bad and went unnoticed by me for so long that I got a performance reprimand at work. Oops.
If you ever want to chat and compare notes sometime, let me know. I'd be happy to.
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I've talked to my shrink a bit about this kind of behavior. It seems as if by engaging some particular part of my brain, it makes it easier for me to daydream, or something along those lines. Soothing myself. Eh, I'm still working on it.
Thank you for sharing; I honestly, truly appreciate it.
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My new analogy for regular old depression (as opposed to yawning-void depression) is that it's like living on the planet Jupiter. You don't feel particularly different from other people; you don't curl into a ball crying at any sudden movement; you maybe even feel normal. At the same time, the gravity is so strong that just getting up to brush your teeth or go to bed is a major effort. I have had to coach myself mentally: "Come on, go into the bathroom, you can do it. Just brush your teeth, and then you can go to bed. Come on, get up..." Once I've been moving for a while, I can keep going, but if I slow down, that powerful gravity will get me again. And sleep is so nice...
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Sometimes I think depression should be called 'inertia'.
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Me too. Lots. It's like my brain gets stuck and is too scared to do anything, so I just don't do anything that actually matters.
I've discovered that crocheting can be a bit helpful because it is repetitive and simple and at the end of it I have a scarf or a sock or something. It doesn't always work, though.
Music is another thing that sometimes helps. Bach 'cello suites in particular seem to make me want to get up and do something. I don't know why; perhaps it occupies the bit of my brain that would normally be trying to do something repetitive and pattern-like.
I generally try not to show when I'm depressed, because it would upset people.
Similarity again there. I will say that reading this post of yours has been helpful for me, though. Sometimes letting people know you are depressed will help them to feel less alone and more connected to the universe. For me, this was what I needed today, and came as a relief (I can elaborate on why if you like). On the other hand, your funny cat story the other day was also excellent.
People who care about you do not want to see you in pain. If you tell them you are depressed they may sometimes be able to help before it gets too bad. As you learn which things help you this will increase. It is a lot easier to ask for help, of course, if you actually know what will help.
So I think of emotional states to be just things that happen, like the weather. One can't really DO anything about them -- they just show up. and also There are times that I get unhappy because bad stuff happens, or happy because good things happen.
The difficulty is that when you're depressed it can be very difficult to see cause and effect in any sort of subjective manner. I found out by keeping a food-mood diary that my mood really is affected more drastically than I had thought by what I eat... and also by basic self-care things like adequate sleep and rest and exercise and prayer and alone time and time with people. I have a tendency to overestimate my abilities and try to do too much, then crash.
I think that when you learn to keep an eye on stress levels in your life then you may find it easier to tell when you are vulnerable to a bout of depression, and eventually to compensate for this in order to avoid becoming severely depressed.
Another thing that is very relevant for me is negative vs. positive thought patterns. I can get stuck thinking negative things for ages and it does me no good. Getting stuck thinking positive things, being unrealistically optimistic, doesn't help either - it just makes me ignore what actually needs to be done. I am finding that learning to be absolutely objective in the way I speak, write and think is a useful tool, but that the trick really is gaining awareness of when I am not doing so, so that I can try to get the unhelpful habits before they cause either a downward spiral or a crash.
I also find reaching out to other people helps more often than I think it will. People are amazingly willing to come round for a cup of tea to keep me company, or go for a walk with me, or even just give me a hug if I ask, but I have to do the asking or they don't know. Usually I ask thinking it will be a miserable time and then end up enjoying it a bit, or even a lot, and I guess other people must enjoy it as well or they wouldn't keep on turning up. You don't even have to tell people you are unhappy for this to work; just ring someone and ask if they fancy a walk sometime in the next few days. You mention being busy and 'dealing with' people... what about just spending time with them?
I'm not saying any of these things are solutions for you, just letting you know that some of your experience is similar to my own.I'm also letting you know some of what has worked for me, because perhaps in future it will be useful.
"a state of feeling like there is a yawning empty void inside the middle of your soul."
Me too. Hang in there. It will pass.
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I would write a longer commentary on how uncomfortably familiar all of that is, but I need to try to drag myself away from Livejournal and toward work right now...
*Sends a Big Hug*
I know exactly what you mean...well, not *exactly*, per se, since everyone's depression manifests in different ways, but I certainly sympathize. I know/hate/fear/am saddened by that empty-void feeling. I deal with it poorly (Vekson becomes exceedingly agitated, angry and worried when I start hitting my head against the wall(much more so than J.B-S. ever did)--especially if I tell him I'm doing it 'cause I'm bored, or apathetic. This is why I will soon be going to see someone about my depression. I've asked Vekson to ask his therapist for help in finding me a therapist (I obviously can't go to the same one Vekson's seeing--that would put his therapist in a tricky situation), now that I have health benefits again.
I'm hoping that therapy will help some of my depression--at least the part that was caused by my family's particular brand of disfunction. I'm not really sure if my depression is biochemical, though.
Anyway, enough about me. I just wanted to let you know that:
a) you're not alone, and b) I'm always here for you--even if I'm no longer living in the same city, or even the same state.
depression
(Anonymous) 2004-09-22 06:29 pm (UTC)(link)I love blogs. How do I create one for me?
love,
Jillaurie
helping self and freinds with depression
(Anonymous) 2004-09-23 05:56 am (UTC)(link)This is my first blog to read and reply on so I don't know how to include quotes I want to respond to. This is the best discussion on depression I have ever run into and i am on a number of psychological/neurofeedback listservers.
When I was in my teens and 20's my depression was almost exactly like Ian's. i didn't know it was physiological at first. it felt like an existential crisis so I began studying in all the religious traditions looking for an answer. I ended up with a great spiritual path but no movement in the depression. I had lots of supportive friends and love and still was mostly always depressed.
what does help? what should a friend do to support a physiologically depressed friend? Here are some things I have discovered in the past 30 years of working with my own physiology and that of my clients.
1. love does help. it doesn't make anything go away. it just helps as love always does.
2. if your depressed friend is open to it, going for a walk is great. walking or other exercise increases seratonin production. you have great talks and you both can get happier! i suggest to phsyio-depressed people to get walking buddies. it's too hard to get out on your own.
3. pets help. I'm not sure about the cats peeing and pooping in otherwise clean places but even so they all love to snuggle. little dogs are the best as their care is more minimal than larger ones. dogs love to snuggle and have their whole lives be around your and their happiness. many cats are dog-like in this way (sorry cats, i know that is an insult! : > }) and so also serve this function. Again, neuro studies have shown sh ----pause while my cat Giavanni right at this moment comes between me and the computer for snuggles!-------own that snuggling with animals produces the feel good and also the calming neurotransmitters.
3. Spiritual stuff does help even though it won't change the physiology. On a mental level finding meaning helps to see the depression as Ian described as the internal weather not a comment on the lack of meaning in life. this is particularly important if there is a suicidal tendency. Depression often feels like a large black empty hole in the pit of your stomach and a larger sense of meaning helps cope with the pit.
4. The right anti-depressant in the right amount is a gift when needed.
5.neurofeedback trains your brain to do on its own what medication does. In severe depression the medication will still be needed but in lesser amounts.check out eegspectrum.com for more info
6. helping others - someone mentioned this. Many religious traditions prescribe this for personal pain and it really does work. there is a story of the Buddha asking a grieving mother to go to all the homes in the village and bring back a sesame seed from each home that had not experienced the death of a loved relative. Needless to say no seeds came back but the woman was able to function again as she opened to others.
Of course if you are depressed you will not be able to get out on your own to help others and this is where friends can help. Bringing together #2 and #3 and #6 you and your friend can volunteer at an animal shelter where there are so many animals in need of walks and snuggles!
I hope this has helped. I do all of the above and have been depression free for over 5 years.
love to all of you,
Jillaurie