I know I shouldn't let this sort of thing get to me, but. . . .

[xiphias]

Yesterday, I got the following email:

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:11:44 -0400
Subject: Jews & the Underground Railroad?
From: lhl <lhl@tiac.net>
To: <ian@eris.io.com>

Greetings,

In a newsgroup post on 8/23/03 you wrote the following:

"Yes, some Jews were involved in the slave trade. Other Jews were involved
in the Underground Railroad. That's the way history works. Not everybody
lives up to their ideals."

What Jews were involved with the Underground Railroad?

Lewis

I thought this was a bit odd; I didn't remember writing this that recently; I don't think I've posted to any newsgroups since well before August, but I vaguely remembered saying that at one point. I'm not going to quibble with something like when I posted it, I figured some sort of glitch had reposted it or something. Not a big deal.

So I responded,

From: Xiphias Gladius <ian@io.com>
To: lhl <lhl@tiac.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:37:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Jews & the Underground Railroad?

9/20/2003 5:11:44 PM, lhl <lhl@tiac.net> wrote:

> In a newsgroup post on 8/23/03 you wrote the following:
>
>
> "Yes, some Jews were involved in the slave trade. Other Jews were
> involved
> in the Underground Railroad. That's the way history works. Not
> everybody
> lives up to their ideals."

> What Jews were involved with the Underground Railroad?

Well, the Touro Synagogue was a stop, for instance.

And then, today, I got this:

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:30:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Jews & the Underground Railroad?
From: lhl <lhl@tiac.net>
To: Xiphias Gladius <ian@io.com>

Here is the message I sent to you TWO YEARS AGO when you tried to push this same lie over the internet. You obviously are typical of the liars we have come to know so well in this ongoing debate. Thank you for providing yet another example of the utter uselessness of communicating in any way with the the people who Jesus called "the Father of Lies."


Dear Mr. Ian:

I found this information about your claim re: the Touro Synagogue, which, it seems, had been abandoned by Jews long before the time in question. Further, I know that according to _The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews_, by the Nation of Islam, that the Touro Synagogue was built by slaves "of some skill," according to their source (Greene); and that Newport was the largest slavetrading center for Jews in America. That aside, it seems that we are back to square one. Would you kindly supply proof of your general claim that Jews were involved in the Underground Railroad. Thanks.

Quoting from: http://www.projo.com/special/history/riblacks/rails.htm

Newport's Touro Synagogue was a stop along the way.

Touro, renowned today as the oldest synagogue in North America, was
dedicated in 1763, but the Revolutionary War destroyed Newport's trade and
the city became a garrison town under British occupation. Most of the
townspeople left.

By the early 1800s, regular services stopped and the synagogue's doors were
closed. There would not be another Jewish congregation there until 1883.

But from the 1830s through the 1850s, the building's Quaker caretaker offered
the use of the empty structure to the free Africans living in Newport. The
building became an Underground Railroad stop because, as Stokes -- who is
also co-chair of the Society of Friends of Touro Synagogue -- says, ``People
wouldn't think of checking on an empty, vacant building. And it was
conveniently located in the center of the free black community.


Xiphias Gladius wrote:

On Thu, 4 Oct 2001, lhl wrote:

> Dear Mr. Ian:
>
> In a recent Usenet post attributed to you, was the following statement:
>
> Yes, some Jews were involved in the slave trade. Other Jews
> were involved in the Underground Railroad. That's the way
> history works.
>
> Would you kindly provide me with documentation for this statement re:
> the Underground Railroad? thank you

Well, the Touro Synagogue was a major stop on the Underground Railroad. A
lot of the people doing that were Quakers, though.

- Ian

This really shook me. I'm feeling genuinely nauseous.

Comments

[chanaleh.livejournal.com]

This guy's obviously a troll, in addition to whatever other social and psychological deficits he has. Don't let it get to you. *hugs*

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

Sounds like he's seeking out people to harass, and might better be killfiled -- or told to stop emailing, and if he continues, reported to his ISP.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

*sigh* He's a troll. Pay him no mind.

They do this, Ian. You know that, I know it. They're scum, and they don't deserve consideration for more than a split second, if that.

*hugs* He's wrong, and you know he's wrong. You're right, and you know you're right. So all he has is vitriol. That's not your problem. Killfile the dipshit.

[acromonkee.livejournal.com]

Well it is important that information be true whenever it is given out in debate, but this guy is obviously a little deranged. Let it get to you; things should get to you; it's important that they do; it keeps you human.

Have a better day Xiphias of the Gladius kind.

[noveldevice.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

ranjtheobscure is going through this same sort of thing right now with someone from one of his cycling advocacy groups.

I don't know what to say to you anymore than I know what to say to him. I'm sorry.

[elynne.livejournal.com]

Oh, frell... I'm sorry. I don't have anything helpful or encouraging to say, other than *hugs*, and you're such a good person who doesn't deserve that kind of garbage. *hughug*

[wordweaverlynn.livejournal.com]

You're getting lots of hugs here, so while I'm waiting in line to offer mine, I thought I'd do some analysis.

Why is this upsetting?

1. The guy is clearly a serious anti-Semite. The kind that denies the Holocaust yet wishes to repeat it. Anyone so filled with hatred is scary.

2. He's irrational. Whoever built the building is not the point.

3. It must seem like he's stalking you -- tracking things said two years ago. That is terrifying. It's happened to me once or twice. I felt vulnerable, helpless, and afraid.

Hell, I would be scared too. The guy is a psycho.

That said, I worry that you're too emotionally vulnerable to people like this. I hate to see you suffer.

Oooh, my turn to hug? (enveloping yuo in a warm, strong embrace)

[cheshyre]

Why is this upsetting?
I suspect it's a combination of:
1) having been gullible enough to fall for it
2) possibly giving an antisemite more ammo
3) not having the evidence at hand to demolish the other guy's arguments

[angelovernh.livejournal.com]

Do you think he's a troll? Sounds like one to me, but I am not familiar with the details of the historical events to know. Perhaps he is just someone that just had a different belief about the history? If so, it may be best to just agree to disagree and try not to let him get to you. Easier said than done!!!

Hugs

[cheshyre]

I googled on the email address and came up with lots of posts on the soc.culture.jewish groups referring to him as a netkook; and presumably, they'd've seen more of the flamewars to know.

[ailbhe]

*hug* I imagine you feel vaguely similar to the way I feel when told that because I am Irish I am a terrorist and so's my whole family. It makes me frightened and repulsed and angry and upset. It also tells me that here is someone I need to avoid, because they are quite likely ineducable and plausibly dangerous.

Filter all email from this person to a black hole, if you can, and forget him.

A.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, oh, oh I have no words.

*great big reassuring hug for you*

[porcinea.livejournal.com]

Oh, I am sorry. Savaged by a troll. And a nasty stalker-ish one, at that. Ugh.

I'm wibbly from getting rude e-mail from someone on one of my mailing lists, at the moment. Feels awful, even if it's not v. important in the Grand Scheme of Things.

Shower it off. Post a rant about avoiding private e-mail discussions somewhere in an ongoing thread about same... (Tee hee!) Rinse out your brain with a trashy movie or some Real News[tm]. Thus endeth my useless advice for the day.

[city-glitter.livejournal.com]

Um.

Why would anyone cite anything written by The Nation of "Islam" as a resource?

What a scary nutcase. *hug*

[nolly.livejournal.com]

Ditto all that.

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

Why would anyone cite anything written by The Nation of "Islam" as a resource?

That was definitely the first thing that came to my mind. Killfile, hon, and let this person poison himself with his venom.

*hugs*

trolls

[erik-j-meyer.livejournal.com]

wow. that was just so trollish I am suprised there is no request for bridge fee passage.

usually I see folks like that in alt.freemasonry. someone decided to catalog the ones that showed more regularly. http://www.masonicinfo.com/people.htm

Maybe someone with copious spare time could do the same for the soc.jewish groups?

Re: trolls

[undauntra.livejournal.com]

Hey Erik, what's a good way to get in touch with you?

contact

[erik-j-meyer.livejournal.com]

e-mail is probably best: meyererik@yahoo.com

[vonbeck.livejournal.com]

I don't see this guy sa much as a troll as a having
a fixed veiw point and nothing you saw is going to
chang that, whill he will keep attacking you for apposing
his "obviously right" ideas.

[supergee.livejournal.com]

Does _The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews_ still say that 80% of the slaves in the south were owned by Jews? That's a classic of innumeracy.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

These people are nuts.

I suppose I do understand how you can take everything bad in the world, everything bad that ever happened to you or to anyone, everything you don't want to think about, and blame it on someone or some group of people, make everything a conspiracy, make up facts and links and find patterns (people are good at pattern-finding, whether the patterns are there or not) and make yourself feel happier by putting all the bad things into one explicable place. And I suppose I can see how anyone questioning any of that structure around that would make you get defensive about it, because if you examined any of it, the whole thing would collapse and you'd be left in a world where bad things happen. And I can see how a group of people could prop up each other's beliefs there.

It's completely insane, and it's scary because sometimes that loon would have to do something to justify that worldview and it might be a very bad thing -- I wonder if it might be possible to get them to blame everything on something that can't be hurt, like Martians or invisible unicorns?

Ick.

Ian, would it help if you thought of it as having got some unpleasant gum stick to the sole of your shoe?