Darn it, I was hoping for a good snarkfest, but now you've got me to think...
OK, first off, "salvation through faith alone" is more complex than it sounds. When Luther first spoke up for this doctrine, "good works" was commonly understood to mean "gifts to the church." You weren't supposed to do good works yourself; you were supposed to finance the Church, whose workings were good by definition. When Luther argued against salvation through good works, he was saying that you could not buy your way into Heaven.
Even the most fundamentalist protestants today believe that your faith is shown through your deeds. If you, say, go out dancing and then play D&D, your faith is suspect.
I'd make the following counter-argument: English is a living language. The meme that "Homosexuality is a choice" is and attempt to contest cultural norms, specifically the one that defines homosexuality in terms of desire rather than action.
Nope. The groups who claim to be able to cure homosexuality say they can cure you of the desire. This is somewhat logical, as just preventing homosexual acts would conflict with fundamentalis Christian theology, that holds the desire to sin to be a sin itself.
so I support the idea that homosexuality should judged by acts rather than as an internal trait, even if it means accepting the meme that homosexuality is a choice.
Interesting. What about bisexual women in monogamous relationships? I know a bunch of those. Are they no longer bisexual if they're only with one gender?
Or if action makes you bisexual, I also know a bunch of women who've fooled around with one or two women, and decided it wasn't for them. (I probably also know guys who've done the same sort of experiementation, but they don't talk about it.) Calling them bisexual doesn't seem accurate.
I consider emotional damage to be equivalent to physical damage
I admire this stance, I don't find it practical. There are too many people who are hurt emotionally if anyone disagrees with them. If you bring up facts that contradict what they've been saying, you're being elitist. How dare you say that your opinion is better than theirs, just because the facts are on your side!
The topic under discussion is another good example. It's not hard to find people who are emotionally hurt by the sight of two men kissing. By being actively bisexual and polyamorous and happy, you are wounding these folks more deeply than anything I could say.
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Date: 2011-07-14 02:41 pm (UTC)OK, first off, "salvation through faith alone" is more complex than it sounds. When Luther first spoke up for this doctrine, "good works" was commonly understood to mean "gifts to the church." You weren't supposed to do good works yourself; you were supposed to finance the Church, whose workings were good by definition. When Luther argued against salvation through good works, he was saying that you could not buy your way into Heaven.
Even the most fundamentalist protestants today believe that your faith is shown through your deeds. If you, say, go out dancing and then play D&D, your faith is suspect.
I'd make the following counter-argument: English is a living language. The meme that "Homosexuality is a choice" is and attempt to contest cultural norms, specifically the one that defines homosexuality in terms of desire rather than action.
Nope. The groups who claim to be able to cure homosexuality say they can cure you of the desire. This is somewhat logical, as just preventing homosexual acts would conflict with fundamentalis Christian theology, that holds the desire to sin to be a sin itself.
so I support the idea that homosexuality should judged by acts rather than as an internal trait, even if it means accepting the meme that homosexuality is a choice.
Interesting. What about bisexual women in monogamous relationships? I know a bunch of those. Are they no longer bisexual if they're only with one gender?
Or if action makes you bisexual, I also know a bunch of women who've fooled around with one or two women, and decided it wasn't for them. (I probably also know guys who've done the same sort of experiementation, but they don't talk about it.) Calling them bisexual doesn't seem accurate.
I consider emotional damage to be equivalent to physical damage
I admire this stance, I don't find it practical. There are too many people who are hurt emotionally if anyone disagrees with them. If you bring up facts that contradict what they've been saying, you're being elitist. How dare you say that your opinion is better than theirs, just because the facts are on your side!
The topic under discussion is another good example. It's not hard to find people who are emotionally hurt by the sight of two men kissing. By being actively bisexual and polyamorous and happy, you are wounding these folks more deeply than anything I could say.