Some Pesach thoughts

[xiphias]

1. This Pesach, I had to do something I'd not had to do before -- throw out my shaving cream and moisturizing lotion. They had oatmeal in them. Stuff works great, but is unquestionably chametz. (Anything with wheat, oats, barley, rye, or spelt that ISN'T matzah is chametz. Aveeno products with Natural Colloidal Oatmeal pretty definitely count.) I'm glad to get back to my preferred brand: not putting oatmeal on my face for a week was much more difficult for me than not putting it in my face.
   
2. I can think of two GOOD consequences of the custom of kitnyot (Rabbis in Eastern Europe decided to treat beans, legumes, corn, and rice as if they were chametz, as well, even though they're not -- that custom is called "kitnyot". Therefore, in the United States and other areas, people whose ancestors came from those ancestors still follow that custom, and people whose ancestors are from Spain, France, northern Africa, and other places don't have the custom.)
   
   First is Pesach Coke. Since corn syrup is made from corn, it's kitnyot (except for people who follow the ruling that it's not). So, for one week a year, you can get, in the United States, Coca-Cola with sugar instead of HFCS. Tastier, and, as we're finding out, somewhat less unhealthy. Somewhat.
   
   Second is the Maxwell House Haggadah. In 1937, General Foods put together a decent, bare-bones Haggaddah with a big ole Maxwell House Coffee logo on the front.
   
   Why?
   
   Because they wanted to get the word out that coffee "beans" were actually berries, and therefore not kitnyot, and therefore, Ashkenazic Jews could still drink coffee on Pesach. So they made a real simple, real cheap Haggaddah which they gave away free with purchase of certified-kosher-for-Passover-Maxwell-House products. And they still do so today.
   
   And this means that ANY Jewish family -- or non-Jewish family that is interested in the Passover Seder -- can get a cheap free, perfectly serviceable Haggaddah so they can have a seder. Are there better haggadot out there? Heck, yes. Pretty much every haggadah out there is better in some way or another -- because Maxwell House sets the baseline. If you're not better than the free one, you don't play. And, because the free one is perfectly acceptable, it means that EVERY haggadah has to be at least that usable. And it wouldn't exist without a coffee company needing to let people know that coffee isn't made from actual beans.
   
3. I don't follow the laws of kitnyot for myself. And Lis does, and I respect that. So we don't have kitnyot in the house. But, if one doesn't follow the rules of kitnyot, one has to actually actively not follow the rules of kitnyot at some point during Pesach.
   
   I had a bartending gig during Pesach at the MIT Faculty club. Okay, on the last day of Pesach. (Which is technically a holiday on which one is not supposed to work. Ooops. But the gig didn't really get going until after sunset. So, even though I STARTED work before Pesach ended, I didn't actually handle any beers until AFTER Pesach . . . ) Before my shift, I got food at the nearby food court.
   
   I got ma po tofu over steamed rice. No chametz, nothing treif, but 100% kitnyot. I thought that was amusing.

Comments

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

thank you for explaining about the maxwell house haggadah. that's really cool. i have heard references to it, but did not know what was up with it.

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

FWIW: According to the OU, hand creams are not chametz even if made from oatmeal. (Since they're not food, they don't count.) I am very happy not to have to part with my Aveeno hand cream during the week in which my hands get the most chapped.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

That makes sense. I just feel weird about it. So, I guess I'd put it into the same category that I think of "kitnyot" -- not halachic, but It Feels Weird.

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

So it's a deal: You'll eat kitniyot, and I'll use Aveeno. :-)

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Heh. Or I'll just go through desensitization training. 'Cause desensitizing my emotions to using Aveeno seems better that over-sensitizing my skin to icky dryness.

[goljerp]

Eh, I'm not sure I agree with the OU (on this, and on many other things). If hand creams aren't chametz even if made from oatmeal, then why should I worry about cat food? Or toothpaste? Or dishwashing liquid?

[shmuelisms.livejournal.com]

1) Cat food is edible FOOD, thus chametz. Your animals are not allowed to enjoy Chametz either, because they and it belong to you. In Israel, the dairies start serving Kosher-for-pesach Cow-feed about a month in advance! Don't ask me why...

2) Toothpaste goes IN the mouth. So rabbinic opinions on it differ. Some OK with it. Some not.

3) Dishwashing Liquid. Many people are strict about this, because "OMG! It's the Pesach dishes!" It's more of an emotional issue than Halacha.

But then of course, you have the extremist loonies who demand/market KFP Bleach, gasoline or whatever. Many rabbis rule that this is complete craziness with no basis in Halacha. My rabbi goes further and calls it Fraud. Forget Jewish Mothers, Pesach is the ultimate #1 Jewish Neurosis!

[goljerp]

Good points. I totally agree with you about pesach being the ultimate neurosis!

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Judaism is hard enough as it is. Making up extra stuff to make it even harder is one of those tendencies that we, as Jews, really ought to do our best to fight against.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I assume that cattle are allowed to eat kitnyot in Israel, though, right?

I also heard somewhere that wheat, spelt, oats, barley, and rye, as plants weren't chametz -- does that factor in? Could you allow cattle to eat stalks of wheat?

Cow Feed

[shmuelisms.livejournal.com]

Not only are cattle and other beasts (like horses) allowed to eat kitniyot, they can each the actual GRAIN. In fact, so can humans... Unwashed grains are strictly KFP. It is told in the Haggada itself, that in order to keep the children awake and active, one of the sages (Rabbi Akiva, IIRC) used to give them {egozim v'Kaliyot} "nuts and fried [things]", the later explicitly being stir-fried grains.

So of course the plant itself is not chametz, not are the grains themselves. Of course, TODAY you would have a major problem trying to buy [whole] wheat grains, that have NOT been washed.

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

As I was taught, "the laws of kitnyot," are that one is not allowed to EAT them. One is still allowed to own them, have them in the house, etc. (8 years ago, I lived with a baby. She stopped eating oatmeal for a week, because we didn't have any in the house. But soy infant formula was not a problem. It wasn't an exception because she needed it for health--she might have been able to get by with expressed milk from several women. It just wasn't a problem.) More recently, my kitnyot went in a cupboard over the refrigerator. Most people seem to have pizza to celebrate the end of Passover. Right after the sun went down, I had the tea with soymilk I'd been craving for days.

First is Pesach Coke. Since corn syrup is made from corn, it's kitnyot (except for people who follow the ruling that it's not). So, for one week a year, you can get, in the United States, Coca-Cola with sugar instead of HFCS.

Where are you finding the stuff? I haven't seen any in the Boston area for more than 5 years? I have been actively searching for it every year since I moved here! I think it is becoming less and less common, as people who want to avoid corn syrup turn to diet pop. The "kosher for passover" labels tend to be on bottles of unsweetened seltzer, or on aspartame-sweetened drinks. It's very frustrating.

[bercilakslady.livejournal.com]

I've seen it at most places I shopped this year. It's the yellow caps that indicate what it is from afar.

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

Are you in the Boston area? What neighborhoods do you shop in? (I live in Arlington, and I usually shop in Arlington and Cambridge. When looking for Passover Coke, I also went to Woburn, Medford, and Belmont.)

[bercilakslady.livejournal.com]

I'm in Brighton. I went to the Stop and Shop near the New Balance Outlet, the Shaws in Watertown, and I think they had it in the Shaws on Commonwealth Ave in Packard's Corner.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Yup, the "laws" of kitnyot are much, much more lenient than the laws of chametz, since kitnyot isn't really anything prohibited. It's just stuff that, basically, people feel emotionally uncomfortable with because it kinda feels like chametz, even though it isn't.

To massively oversimplify, of course.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

I have a question. Would it be permissable for you to pack up all your chametz products and store them at a non-Jewish friend's house, them pick them up after Pesach? That way they wouldn't be wasted.

(My father's Jewish family never observed, so I don't know what's okay and what's not.)

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

You can't own chametz, so you have to either get rid of it entirely or sell it to a non-Jew (who then sells it back to you after Pesach).

This seems to be much more complicated than I thought, and so is commonly handled by a rabbi.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

It's not THAT bad. There's a standard contract, which, in effect, manages to ensure that you will get that-which-was-your-stuff-and-will-be-your-stuff-again back. The reason it's handled by a rabbi, in most cases, is simply because it's more convenient for one guy in the community to just get a list of names of everybody who's selling their stuff and handle it all for everybody.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

I was so disappointed that I didn't get to buy anyone's chametz this year. I actually acquired an Israeli coin for the purpose.

[rebmommy.livejournal.com]

that is so sweet! didn't know you wanted to buy chametz - I always sell mine through Chabad, over the internet - it's an easy way to do it. but selling it to you would have the added benefit of being able to see you. come visit soon - the front porch is almost done and we could enjoy a spring evening together - if spring ever arrives!

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

It would be acceptible -- and is, in fact, standard practice -- to pack away all your chametz products in a sealed area of the house -- a cabinet which you masking-tape closed, for instance -- and sell them all to a non-Jew, even without moving them out of the physical house. And then, at the end of the holiday, you buy them back. Just storing them out of the house wouldn't do it, since you'd still own them. But if they are physically in your house, but don't belong to you, that's okay.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see. How come you elected to throw your away rather than go the sell/re-buy route? (That's actually a personal question that you don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just curious.)

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I didn't for EVERYTHING. Just for SOME things. If it's mostly empty, I got rid of it.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

And who's the cat in your userpic? It looks a lot like our late, beloved Boopsie.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

That's my darling Benjamin. He's the cat with a dog's personality. Follows me room to room, loyal as a hound, never gets into mischief.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Boopsie would also follow us from room to room, but that's 'cause she got lonely by herself. Not at all dog-like, or, particularly, cat-like. Pretty much just Boopsie-like.

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

Hispanic grocery stores are likely to have imported real-sugar coke.

The common use of corn syrup in the US is a result of price supports for sugar.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Ethanol, while being more-or-less a bust for environmental health and energy production, does, at least, manage to soak up enough of the excess corn production to make HFCS expensive enough to make sugar competitive.

So, while ethanol doesn't do anything it was supposed to do, it DOES increase the quality of our junk food.

[jehanna.livejournal.com]

My family still uses the Maxwell House haggadah--our copies of which I believe my parents have had since before I was born. We incorporate stuff from other sources and leave out bits from their book, though.

Having Pesach without it would be like not having the square bottle of nasty Concord grape wine. It might be better, but it wouldn't be the same! :)

[redbird]

My family uses that Haggadah, but edits on the fly, mostly to remove gendered language--e.g., where it refers to "our fathers" we'll use "ancestors," and God is "Ruler" or "Sovereign" rather than "King".

[jehanna.livejournal.com]

Yup, we do the same.

I may change it up more next year, though, our current texts are getting a mite tired.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

IIRC, if it's not food, it can't be chametz. Thus, you don't need to remove your wallpaper, which is likely held up with a glue made from wheat.

[ron_newman]

I never knew that story behind the Maxwell House haggadah.

[greenlily.livejournal.com]

I didn't know the story of the Beit Maxwell Haggadah either, but my grandmother has a few of them. I don't think we use them, though--me, Dad and my sibs have big fancy Haggadot we were given as bnei mitzvot gifts, and Grandma and Mom and whoever else is there uses the pale yellow paperback ones with the dark red trim, you know the ones I mean.

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

Yellow goat! We used those in Hebrew School!

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

This is neat, and thank you for explaining it. (I was a Pesach Goy this year. It was fun. Now I understand better.)

[ashnistrike.livejournal.com]

My least favorite part of the Maxwell House Haggadah is that the Wicked Child gets kicked out of the tribe. It's a very in-group oriented haggadah in general; it has no interest in explaining thing to people who don't already know. The back story is cool, though.

The explanation for kitnyot that I got as a kid was that all those things could, technically, be ground to make flour. It's not a very good explanation, but for eight days a year I follow the rules anyway.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a real bare-bones haggadah, designed to be the bare minimum of What You Need, for some definition of "you". Because it's supposed to be Cheap As Free. It's got less explanation than any other haggadah I've ever seen -- including the late medieval ones, the Yiddish ones, pretty much ANYTHING. If you get any less explanation than the Maxwell House, you really don't have a haggadah.

But that's why it's a baseline.

The more you look into explanations for kitnyot, the less sense they make. At this point, there's a significant movement in halachic Judaism looking for ways to get rid of the entire mess.

That said, "because it would just plain feel Wrong if I didn't follow these rules with which I grew up" is a pretty darned good reason to follow the rules.

[nex0s.livejournal.com]

Tangental: any good haggadah's you can recommend? I'd like to do passover more thoroughly when the Blueberry is here.

N.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

That's a totally personal choice. The only thing I can suggest is to go to a Jewish bookstore and flip through a bunch of 'em, see what grabs you.

My taste tends to run toward ArtScroll-like things (and ArtScroll makes a kids' Haggadah, even), but that's only one of MANY directions you could go.

[theclamsman.livejournal.com]

Even though HFCS is made from corn, by the time it becomes HFCS it's corn properties are completely gone. It's been turned into a chemical--a rather nasty one (rent King Corn, like I recced).

Also, if you live near a BevMo, you can get the Coke with just sugar any time. Or you can buy it online.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

And there are rabbis who, for that reason, allow things with corn syrup for Pesach. The chief Ashkenazic rabbi in Israel, for instance. But they can get away with that partially because kitnyot isn't a "real" law. Almost exactly the same argument has been attempted for gelatin, and that one doesn't fly as well.

[banshee99.livejournal.com]

Where can one buy this sugared Coke?

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Around here, normal supermarkets. But I think you need to have enough Jews around to make it worth the supermarket's time to order the stuff.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

The story of the Maxwell House Haggadah is brilliant. The ingeniousness made me laugh out loud -- I love humans, because we do things like this!

[ookpik.livejournal.com]

Thanks for explaining kitnyot; having grown up in a completely non-observant household, I first encountered this as an adult. (And still find it puzzling.)

FWIW, I have a Haggadah. Not Maxwell House, though; it's this one (http://www.amazon.com/Haggadah-Executed-Arthur-Szyk/dp/B000OHBC1K/ref=sr_1_2/183-1454277-4219532?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240521160&sr=1-2), a bat mitzvah present from my grandmother.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Szyk is GORGEOUS. We've got a copy, and it's the one Lis's father normally leads out of at his seders.

And kitnyot seems puzzling because it IS puzzling. It makes no sense, which is why it's hard to understand.

[ookpik.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. Your saying that it makes no sense is what I meant; the person who first told me about it kept trying to make sense out of it, which didn't work for me. Once you say it doesn't make sense, it just is, I'm fine with that.