Devil's Advocate here: The "rebel" flag is exclusive (LOL, I wrote "expulsive" at first...how Freudian) to America and Americans. While it signifies a terrible time in our history for African Americans, it also symbolizes other things for "them racists" down there.
I watched an episode of Bullshit! where Penn & Teller followed a guy who, every day, parades his large Confederate States flag to and from his town's center square. He is black. Uncle Ruckus he wasn't, either.
Technically, they weren't traitors to the US, because they weren't really citizens. But there were black people in the US during the civil war who owned slaves. And if they didn't why fight for a side that maintained that it was OK to own slaves?
I think that I disagree. Both sides maintained that it was legal, and that the federal government had no legal right to change that (hence the Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in the Union). But Lincoln was not exactly quiet about how it was not OK.
I mean -- literally -- yes. They were traitors to the United States of America. Like. Secession is high on the list of traitorous activities. That's, um, that's why we had that war. Besides the obvious and horrifying logic behind the war, the CSA's whole point was that they were not, and did not want to be, the USA.
FTR, I think that people should be allowed to do what they believe is right and fair/"just". I habor no ill will towards blacks who fought for the Confederacy; they had their reasons. But by your reasoning, every single Confederate soldier was a traitor to the United States.
Who was it who freed the slaves again? Ah yes...Republicans. Yet today the Obamacrats are all too eager to forget who was on whose side back then.
Look, if you're going to pull that out, I'm going to point out that Grant, Harding, and Hoover were all Republicans. No one wants that.
If I had been around when the Republican party stood for big government and the people, I would have voted Republican. But I am around when the Republican party stands for little government, conservatism, and a world of bullshit. I vote for my ideology. Not my party.
And the Republicans have done such a great job of maintaining their reputation as champions of racial equality, tolerance, and civil rights in general. Right.
Every single Confederate soldier WAS a traitor to the United States. That's why a general amnesty was required, and why they were forbidden from holding governmental office after the War.
On the other hand, if we banned all statements inconsistent with one's own behavior, we'd have a resounding silence during many political campaigns, so maybe it's worth considering.
Which is related to why I keep wondering why no one seems to be rebutting Palin with "So, does that mean your house isn't "real America" since your husband voluntarily and of his own free will joined a party whose purpose is to secede from the United States?"
I mean yeah, sure, anybody who hangs out the battle flag is probably just some kind of damnfool who hasn't got enough sense to pour piss out of a boot. A fair number of them are displaying it because it became the standard of the Klan after the War and they just hide behind the cover of claiming it has something to do with their heritage. But I do cut some slack for people who put out one of the official flags of the Confederacy. The first official flag was, after all, one of the seven flags that you see in seven flags over Texas displays. I never see second or third official flags outside of Civil War reenactment units.
If you want to get into a long conversation with someone about this -- Kent owns a confederate flag and wants to fly it on our property. I won't let him. But he does allow his daughter to wear clothing with the flag on it.
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Devil's Advocate here: The "rebel" flag is exclusive (LOL, I wrote "expulsive" at first...how Freudian) to America and Americans. While it signifies a terrible time in our history for African Americans, it also symbolizes other things for "them racists" down there.
I watched an episode of Bullshit! where Penn & Teller followed a guy who, every day, parades his large Confederate States flag to and from his town's center square. He is black. Uncle Ruckus he wasn't, either.
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Your "nope" is tantamount to sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "LA LA LA LA LA". Very puerile.
Here's an article with I THINK it's the same African American dude profiled in Bullshit!:
http://ww2.volunteertv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3542863
So are you saying that Black Confederates were traitors?
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams012600.asp
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FTR, I think that people should be allowed to do what they believe is right and fair/"just". I habor no ill will towards blacks who fought for the Confederacy; they had their reasons. But by your reasoning, every single Confederate soldier was a traitor to the United States.
Who was it who freed the slaves again? Ah yes...Republicans. Yet today the Obamacrats are all too eager to forget who was on whose side back then.
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If I had been around when the Republican party stood for big government and the people, I would have voted Republican. But I am around when the Republican party stands for little government, conservatism, and a world of bullshit. I vote for my ideology. Not my party.
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Oh, PLEASE. You can't rest on 150-year-old laurels; the party of Jesse Helms and Rush Limbaugh is not the party of Abraham Lincoln.
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On the other hand, if we banned all statements inconsistent with one's own behavior, we'd have a resounding silence during many political campaigns, so maybe it's worth considering.
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Now if I only could practice that in my workplace.
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(Rotational symmetry FTW!)
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I mean yeah, sure, anybody who hangs out the battle flag is probably just some kind of damnfool who hasn't got enough sense to pour piss out of a boot. A fair number of them are displaying it because it became the standard of the Klan after the War and they just hide behind the cover of claiming it has something to do with their heritage. But I do cut some slack for people who put out one of the official flags of the Confederacy. The first official flag was, after all, one of the seven flags that you see in seven flags over Texas displays. I never see second or third official flags outside of Civil War reenactment units.
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I wonder if people who use Stars and Bars in New England are making it shorthand from 'hell yeah I'm from the boonies!' and ignoring its history.