What's so bad about being a great orator?

[xiphias]

People campaigning against Barak Obama -- and, at this point, that means McCain as well as Clinton -- and commentators in the media are asking, "Well, sure, but what does he have BESIDES inspiring rhetoric?"

Let's pretend for a minute that he DIDN'T have anything other than a vision of what America could be, and inspiring rhetoric. Let's pretend that he didn't have a policy-wonky mind, or the ability to do backroom politics.

I'm beginning to think that a candidate who had a vision of America with which I agreed, and the ability to convince the dubious that such a vision was right, and to inspire the already convinced, and to shake the belief of those who opposed that vision -- and who had NO other abilities or qualifications whatsoever might still be a reasonably good choice for President.

I grew up hearing the argument: the main job of a President is to set direction and policy, and to inspire people to follow it, and he or she may delegate the details to others. I never quite believed it, and I am still not COMPLETELY convinced, and I'd RATHER have a candidate who can do ALL of the above -- but, y'know, I'm beginning to see the point.

Comments

[kightp.livejournal.com]

I find it somehow encouraging that, so far, this is the only ammo being fired at Obama from either side.

I don't think it's going to be effective, because I think an awful lot of people share your (and my) opinion that what we are long overdue a president whose strong suits are vision, leadership and conciliation.

Hell, I think we've seen too much of the executive meddling in the sort of details that should more properly be left to the legislative and judicial branches. We have all the law makers and interpreters we need - perhaps even all we can stand.

Even if the president were the nation's CEO (and I would argue - strongly - that the corporate model is a lousy model for government), a good CEO sets a tone and a pace, and inspires those the rest of the way down the chain of command to do what they're hired - and qualified - to do.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

I don't think the University of Chicago just lets anyone teach Constitutional Law. Y'know?

Now I realize that alone doesn't qualify a person for the presidency. After all, John Yoo also teaches Constitutional Law at UCLA, and I sure don't want him in the Oval Office. But when combined with Obama's more widely known qualifications I think it does show that there's depth to the man.

[jehanna.livejournal.com]

I have a friend online who really hates Obama...she's convinced that he uses GOP "code words" in his rhetoric and plans to just continue the recent trend of giving in to them all the time....can anyone lend any support or rebuttal to this? I haven't seen enough of his actual speeches or anything to be sure.

[practicallyfame.livejournal.com]

I believe the same thing about the president. The role is to set policy and direction, but the dirty work is supposed to be done by Congress, that's their job. The president is simply supposed to get the majority of the population on the same page. Inspire, lead, and be a respresentation of America on the international stage.

Barack Obama doesn't offend me by those standards. In fact, I think it's high time we had an inspirational president. Substance isn't actually something the White House is really responsible for.

[tceisele.livejournal.com]

I don't know, as soon as somebody starts going on about "code words" I kind of suspect that they don't have any idea what they are talking about. I mean, you can claim anything is a "code word". I could claim that "change" is a code word for "let's invade Iran", how the heck is anybody supposed to disprove *that*?

I think that invoking "code words" is another way of saying "I'm going to take everything you say out of context, reinterpret freely, and twist it completely out of recognition, OK?" Your friend should base her opinion of him on what he actually says and has actually done, not on some radical reinterpretation of the plain sense of his words.

[dancing-kiralee.livejournal.com]

So, say the President's job is to set direction.

There are two parts to that job; choosing which direction to set, and convincing others to follow it.

A great, or good, orator can demonstrably do the second well; but not necessarily the first. And the thing about great, or good, oration, is that it makes someone who can do the second well - who can inspire people - look like they can do the first - set the right direction - well too.

That isn't necessarily a con - no one is intentionally deceiving anyone; but people can be lead astray... that is convinced to vote for a President who is only good at half of the job he's supposed to be doing.

People know this of course. And they guard against it; they guard against it by saying things like, "Well, sure, but what does he have BESIDES inspiring rhetoric."

Now, I don't hate Obama. Of the people still in the race, he's probably my favorite. And I will give you that he is a great - not good but great - orator, and, more to the point, his speaking style may be exactly what the United States needs right now, so he can clearly do half of the job well; but I have deep concerns about his ability to make the right choices and set the right direction.

Kiralee

[jehanna.livejournal.com]

Well, I would think that, except that I know this person is much, much more thoughtful than that. I was hoping someone could comment on his actual speeches and positions so that I could review as well.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Well, he DOES use the phrasing and framing of the GOP -- I do it, too. You use the terms of the GOP, and you show how those terms and values are best served by Democratic policies.

[tceisele.livejournal.com]

Well, without knowing what specific positions your friend is concerned about, it would be awfully hard to comment. If you just want a summary of his positions, though, this site looks to be pretty thorough:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

The same site also has listings for McCain and Clinton, for comparison:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_McCain.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[solipsistnation.livejournal.com]

Well, heck, we've had a president with no convincing rhetoric and a seriously screwy vision of America for the past 8 years. Perhaps we finally pick somebody who can at least speak the actual language.

[linenoise.livejournal.com]

This has bothered me for a long time. I think that far, far too much, the nation as a whole is allowing the GOP to frame the debate. The democrats keep using their words, trying to argue. Part of the reason that the neocons have been so successful is the degree to which they control discourse by controlling language.

I think it's past time that we start using our *own* language, rather than trying to fight the GOP at game where they invented all the rules. I think Obama has a chance to do that. *Because* he's a better orator. And I think Hillary *can't* do it, because she's been in the system for too long.

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

kightp posted a link to a speech Candidate Obama gave concerning how his faith informs his values as a person and as a politician. A lot of lefties reacted badly to the idea that a Dem might invoke God and Jesus in his resentation, but if you listen to or read the speech you see that he isn't the wingnut that irresponsible sound-biting tries to make of him.

I'm curious

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

Can you give an example or two of what choices and directions concern you?

[sezurei.livejournal.com]

I agree. He's inspirational and charismatic. He's got a powerful speaking presence and that means the WORLD to me. I agree with his vision.

[cheshyre]

Ezra Klein on how Obama's been using his persuasiveness. [Via Kevin Drum, who blogged "This is spooky. I was planning to write almost this exact post, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. So today's Obama commentary is outsourced to Ezra Klein."

[jehanna.livejournal.com]

Thanks, that will be handy to dig through.

[theclamsman.livejournal.com]

"Well, sure, but what does he have BESIDES inspiring rhetoric?"

Lies and duplicity that the media hasn't focused on because he's their darling and Clinton is easily picked on. I point to what I ranted about in the Clinton community. I especially enjoyed the Edwards video where Edwards denounced Obama's negative ads against Clinton, and then went on to say that Obama accused him of running negative ads against him, too. I sure hope Edwards sticks to this conviction; he sure seems to know in the video that Obama is a two-faced fabricator.