Not a full Boopsie update, but just some thoughts

[xiphias]

While Boopsie was staying with felis_sidus while we were in Florida, Boopsie started on a quarter-tablet of Pepsid to help with stomach acid, which may be one of the reasons she's not been eating.

Boopsie doesn't like getting pills -- she'll struggle and resist a bit. However, she ALSO will remind me if it's time for her pill. See, as much as she doesn't really LIKE the pills, she is, in some way, aware that it's good for her. Basically, she trusts me, Lis, and felis_sidus -- and she figures, if one of us does something like that, there's a good reason for it.

So, tonight was the first time I gave her the Pepsid. And she took it, and then walked over to her food bowl to nibble a little at it.

It really looked like a thought process -- "I've now had the thing which makes my stomach hurt less, so I will now eat." That she associated the pill with feeling better and with being able to eat.

Well, first, of course, I hope that it's working and DOES work like that. But there are a couple interesting, more general ideas this raises.

Boopsie identifies "Thing Trusted Person Has Done" and "Me Feeling Better". And she identifies "Pill That Makes My Stomach Feel Better" with "Stomach Feels Better."

Is it possible for a cat to have placebo effect benefits? Do cats have that level of cognition?

And, if they do, should animal drug tests be double-blind? Are they already?

Comments

[cellio]

Wow, that's pretty cool! None of my cats seem to get the connection betwween medicine and feeling better, alas.

[metahacker.livejournal.com]

chief_operator has a great story that seems to demonstrate cats feeling guilt and persecution (ever punish a cat that *hasn't* done something wrong? see how mopey they get?), which would indicate the ability to form expectations based on chains of events. This in turn would seem to be a prerequisite for placebo effects. So yeah, maybe...

wispfox and jasra's newly diabetic cat definitely is all about the needle and the insulin so it could feel better. It seemed to be clear on the "I get needle, I get pettings, I feel better on the days this happens" concept when I was over there.

Makes me wonder how much can be compressed into their tiny brains!

[jehanna.livejournal.com]

The smarter of our cats definitely were more placid about medical things, although I've not had one yet that made the connection about pills. I think none of them were on any with sufficiently obvious, immediate effects for them to get the idea. So the smarter ones just got craftier about pretending to eat them and then spitting them out later. :P

[theclamsman.livejournal.com]

I don't see why cats wouldn't have that level of cognition, particularly if "things work" or you can teach them tricks and such. Chudley knows that if he spins his RIM PHAT SPINNAH toy three times, he'll get treats. Poot bugs the living shit out of me if he thinks I should take an aspirin (notsomuch cognitive as...I don't even know what to call that >___>).

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

I'm glad Boopsie is feeling better.

Boopsie doesn't like getting pills -- she'll struggle and resist a bit. However, she ALSO will remind me if it's time for her pill. See, as much as she doesn't really LIKE the pills, she is, in some way, aware that it's good for her. Basically, she trusts me, Lis, and [info]felis_sidus -- and she figures, if one of us does something like that, there's a good reason for it.

So, tonight was the first time I gave her the Pepsid. And she took it, and then walked over to her food bowl to nibble a little at it.

It really looked like a thought process -- "I've now had the thing which makes my stomach hurt less, so I will now eat." That she associated the pill with feeling better and with being able to eat.

It could be that the relief of stomach pain is fast enough for her to notice right away, and that's what makes her go to the food bowl. Or it could be a matter of routine. Is she a cat who likes to live by routines?

Is it possible for a cat to have placebo effect benefits? Do cats have that level of cognition?

And, if they do, should animal drug tests be double-blind? Are they already?

Cats can't have direct placebo effect benefits, as far as I know. I don't think the cat can believe "this medicine will cure my disease" any more than she can take the medicine herself. I think a cat can believe "the person who loves me is doing this uncomfortable thing to save me," or "the person who loves me feels doubtful about doing this uncomfortable thing to me," and those beliefs have an indirect placebo effect. Something very similar happens in humans. That's why human drug tests are double-blind, with the doctors not knowing who gets placebos.

I don't know if veterinary drug trials are done blind. I think some of them are, but it's always cheaper to do them openly, because the record-keeping is more of a hassle with secret codes.

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

I believe good animal drug tests are already double-blind, at least if they rely at all on observation of the animals' behaviour to determine the outcome. Otherwise, the people monitoring outcomes will be affected in their interpretation of the animals' behavioural signals by their knowledge of which ones have received the drug.

[zarhooie.livejournal.com]

Whenever Zari needs to take some antihistamine, she always freaks out. She sees the pink bottle coming and goes and hides under the table. Of course, five minutes after her meds, she falls over, asleep, so that might have something to do with it. At least she's not itching!

[asciikitty.livejournal.com]

No idea from double-blind, placebeo, any of that.

But.

My cousin was (and may still be) a homeopthic vet out in Western MA. And I've been using that knowledge for years as an indication that maybe homeopathic remedies sometimes worked, because the animals he treated wouldn't necessarily experience the full placebeo effect of stuff.

But if they DO have some kind of "pills mean get better" response after a while, then maybe that would be strengthened by the demenor of the sort of vet who's into alternative medicine, and therefore... ack ack. I can't come up with a good conclusion to this, I'm totally uncaffienated. but there you go.

[redknight.livejournal.com]

My cat is also taking an famotidine (the active ingredient in Pepsid) but because she hates pills she is instead getting medicated chews, kind of like cat treats with medicine mixed in.

If you're interested, I can let you have the contact info for the veterinary pharmacy that provided them.

[cogitationitis.livejournal.com]

Most animal drug studies include a placebo, but aren't double-blind; too difficult on the researchers.

If you have difficulty feeding your cat pills, the Pepcid (or the generic, which I hope you're buying) can be crushed or hidden in a treat. I generally just pin down the cat, shove the pill in the back of the throat, hold the mouth shut, and stroke the throat. Then open & check it's gone. (I had one cat who was particularly resistant to pills, and would even hold them in her mouth, the go spit them out behind the TV.)

My vet gave me some dry powdered Maalox for Odin, when he wasn't eating.