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xiphias ([personal profile] xiphias) wrote2007-09-30 02:06 pm
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I yelled at my class today

And then lectured them about lashon ha-ra.

I feel vaguely guilty about yelling and lecturing, but I'd feel a lot worse if I hadn't taken some action about students hurting each other's feelings.

I just don't know if I handled it right. One student wrote something that could be construed as hurtful about another student in zir notebook. A second student looked over zir shoulder, read it, and called the student about which it was about over to also see it, who saw it, grabbed the page of the notebook, and crumpled it up. Only the last part of this was obvious, so I yelled at the third student. Who was more upset by this than zie usually is when I yell at zir, so I knew that something else was up, and found out the rest of the story.

I told them that all three of them had done things wrong, but that they weren't of the same magnitude. I said that writing hurtful things in one's own notebook is bad, but that, as it wasn't intended to be seen by anyone, and therefore wasn't intended to hurt anyone, that is mitigating. So it's bad, but not SO bad. I said that grabbing someone else's notebook and crumpling the page was absolutely unacceptable. But that the person who had done the worst thing was the second student. Because that was lashon ha-ra.

And I lectured them about that. And how we, in the classroom, are a community, and lashon ha-ra damages communities. You don't have to LIKE everyone in your community, but you ARE a community. And avoiding lashon ha-ra is one of the ways you preserve communities.

The three students looked abashed and ashamed at their actions, and the rest of the class looked intent and somewhat worried. And at the end of the lecture, I asked if we were all willing to, in a sense, pretend that this whole situation hadn't happened. That, to repair our community, we had to forgive each other, which, in this case, would mean trying to remember the lessons, but forgetting the incident as much as we could.

They all agreed that they would like to move past the whole thing and pretend it never happened. I did try to be certain that all of them knew that, if they DIDN'T feel comfortable moving on, we could still work on it, but they were all embarrassed by it and wanted to just have it over and gone, so we did.

I still don't know if I did the right thing. I think I did an okay thing, but I don't know if I was right.

It's hard to know if one was fair. It's hard to know if one was correct.

Was I right that crumpling up the page was more wrong that writing the page? Was I right that calling attention to the page was more wrong than either writing it, or destroying it? I don't really know. I THINK I was at least close enough to right, but I'm not certain, and am still feeling guilty and unsettled. But I would feel MORE guilty and unsettled if I HADN'T done something like that. I'm responsible, in part, for my kids' moral and ethical development, and for their emotional health.

[identity profile] adrian-turtle.livejournal.com 2007-09-30 08:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the most important thing was that you responded to all three students, and made it clear that they were doing something damaging to the community as a whole. (It's not just the person the harsh words in the notebook were nominally about that can be hurt by them--it's everyone who reads or writes them, or is affected by echoes of diminishing trust and friendliness such things can cause.) It's important that you responded promptly, and made it clear that this really matters.

I don't know how important it is that you assessed the relative sinfulness accurately. If a community were to decide something like, "violence is worse than fraud, so violent crime should be punished more severely," that's a concept of "worse" that points to consequences. You seem to be saying, "X is worse than Y, and you should not do either of them. Both are hurtful to other individuals and the community we value. The only thing stopping you from doing either X or Y is your conscience." In that case, I don't see the value in dwelling on comparisons that can look like excuses/permission for the lesser offense.

That said, I'm not comfortable with the idea of teaching that the second student committed a worse offense than the other two. Whistleblowing is worse than doing something wrong in the first place? If you see one member of the community writing something vicious about another community member, the virtuous thing to do is to conceal the nastiness? Can that possibly be what you meant?

[identity profile] msmidge.livejournal.com 2007-09-30 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I think whistleblowing in this situation would have been telling the teacher, not the student who was being written about. The principle [livejournal.com profile] xiphias is thinking of here, I believe, is that you spare a person embarrassment under any circumstances, and the second kid caused embarrassment to the offended party by drawing attention to the mean comment. Kid2 could have told on Kid1 or rebuked Kid1 himself and then not hurt Kid3's feelings.
goljerp: Photo of the moon Callisto (Default)

[personal profile] goljerp 2007-09-30 08:25 pm (UTC)(link)
That said, I'm not comfortable with the idea of teaching that the second student committed a worse offense than the other two. Whistleblowing is worse than doing something wrong in the first place?

I'm not sure that's what Xiphius was saying. It's not totally clear to me, but my impression was that the second student told the third student in a malicious/teasing way, as a way to hurt the second (and possibly the first, as well). In that sense, yes, it was worse.

[identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com 2007-09-30 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
No, not really. It was a sort of, "hey, look what so-and-so wrote about you" thing -- no attempt to hurt anyone, and no maliciousness.

If it HAD been malicious, then rebuking zir would not have been as effective. Zie HADN'T been attempting to do anything wrong, which is why zie felt guilty when zie found out zie had.

[identity profile] yehoshua.livejournal.com 2007-09-30 08:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't like the comparison to whistle-blowing because it takes us into a much more complicated realm of hilchot loshon hara. Whistle-blowing has a clear implication of a grievance against the larger community. It is equally clear that running between two individuals saying "Plony called you a poopy-head" does nothing but sew further sinat chinam (senseless hatred) between the kid who wrote it and the kid bout whom it was written. Even if this is already known to both parties, the involvement of the third party almost always will make the situation worse by antagonizing someone. Thus, the Chofetz Chaim was pretty emphatic about tale-bearing being worse than writing something impolite in one's private notebook (as long as there is reason to believe that the notebook was meant to be private). It really doesn't matter how nasty it was at that point.

BTW, please remember that this is an explicitly Jewish environment we're talking about, and that the Chofetz Chaim (R' Yisroel Meir haKohen Kagan zt''l) spent decades thinking hard about these very issues, and concluded that there are different levels of severity. You're welcome to disagree with him, but in a Jewish context you'll almost certainly be incorrect.

[identity profile] xiphias.livejournal.com 2007-09-30 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
After we agreed to drop the whole thing, various students started asking me about other, more complex situations involving lashon ha-ra, and I could answer a couple of them, but did have to say, for other ones, "I don't know -- lashon ha-ra is a really complex issue and important, and I'd have to look it up."

Total non sequitur, but...

[personal profile] cheshyre 2007-09-30 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
By the way, I think we still have your jacket in the trunk of our car.

Recent warm weather really doesn't call for it and it's not in our way or anything, but you may want to arrange some time to pick it up *before* it becomes necessary. :)